Calling 911??

[MR Redneck]

While in Arizona this weekend a subject was brought to my attention that didnt set well.
Im posting this so Texans can hear it and decide if its a subject for them to follow.
The AZCDL is going after legislature to disallow 911 calls as evidence. Currently in Arizona the courts can use 911 calls as evidence. When you call 911 after shooting someone in self defense it will be used against you in a court of law.
I dont know as of yet if this can be done in Texas, but im going to find out.
How do you call 911 if its used against you? I guess i'll just have to call and say I need police and medical help ASAP and hang up.... Dont allow 911 calls to be used against you. :1zhelp:

 

[kurt]

I'm not sure what the problem is. 911 is certainly recorded, but why is that a problem if you have a SD shooting? I'd think it would work for you more than against.

 

[MR Redneck]

I'm not sure what the problem is. 911 is certainly recorded, but why is that a problem if you have a SD shooting? I'd think it would work for you more than against.

It would depend on what you say in the heat of the moment kurt. I cant give much detail because I dont know all of it.
Here's what I do know. One of the commity of the AZCDL is a retired NYPD, and he seems to take the 911 recordings very seriously when its used as evidence in a self defense case. Prosecuting people based on a 911 call for a self defense shoot is not doing justice for the public thats trying to defend themselfs.

 

[kurt]

Interesting. I'd love to find out what aspects they are using. I'm no prosecutor but there usually isn't much in those tapes beyond identifying who shot whom, threat assessment and some basic instructions. AZ strikes me as self-defense friendly state.

 

[MR Redneck]

Interesting. I'd love to find out what aspects they are using. I'm no prosecutor but there usually isn't much in those tapes beyond identifying who shot whom, threat assessment and some basic instructions. AZ strikes me as self-defense friendly state.

Man you have no idea... I spent all day saturday in Pheonix and I honestly felt like I left Texas and traveled to a Free Country!! I hate to say that but there it is.
Before we left Arizona we had to get gas. I went to the cashier's counter to pay for some cracker jack and ended up laying my LCP on the counter to get the change out of my pocket. The clerk asked what was so funny when I started laughing and I told him I was thankful for his state laws.. We then rode off back to Texas to try and make a difference at home.

 

[308nato]

Retired NYPD on the committee says it all.
Why is it that people that move from out of state to a free state want change the laws
to be like the state they just moved from.

 

[San Antone RR]

911 tapes as evidence one way or the other isn't a new thing. I for one like the idea. You won't hear a gang member calling 911 and saying "Yo 911 guy, I just snuffed a Blood because I'M A CRIP!!!". What you will hear is someone who just discharged their weapon in defense of self or others calling and asking for someone to come to their location.
All of these will be in front of a Grand Jury at some point and as long as you don't conduct yourself like the gangbanger mentioned earlier, the 911 call will be nothing but a help to you. If an overzealous Prosecutor decides to go after you because of the tape, then there are plenty of pro gun lawyers that can and will use that same tape to paint their own picture to help you.

 

[Bithabus]

Retired NYPD on the committee says it all.
Why is it that people that move from out of state to a free state want change the laws
to be like the state they just moved from.

I think he said the retired NYPD guy is on the AZCDL committee.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Because if you don't call 9-1-1- you're hosed in court. And if you do call 9-1-1 it can be used against you. Effectively, you're being forced to offer evidence that can be used against you. So that opens debate as to whether or not your 5th Amendment right to not incriminate yourself is violated.

That's why you better know what you're gonna say in that situation before hand. e.g. "There's been a _____ [home invasion/robbery/assault/etc.] at _______ [location/address]. The bad guy(s) was shot. Send police and an ambulance [hangup]"

 

[matefrio]

It can also be used to screw you over with the public. I have his whole name, cellphone number, and address.

 

[MR Redneck]

Retired NYPD on the committee says it all.
Why is it that people that move from out of state to a free state want change the laws
to be like the state they just moved from.

Uhm? He is one of the good guy's. He is on the AZCDL committy. You really have no idea how briliant this guy is till you hear him speek.
And no, he doesnt act like he's from NY because he doesnt like it when honest people are restricted.

 

[MR Redneck]

It can also be used to screw you over with the public. I have his whole name, cellphone number, and address.

Sure, you have Mr. Horns info, but I wouldnt suggest anyone go screwing around his place!
That recording is proof to me that LE can be depended on to protect property or defend life. Mr. Horn was very patient and held his horses longer than I would expect anyone to.
He is a credit to his entire community.

 

[matefrio]

It's sad but you do need to be guarded when you are talking to 911.

Sure, you have Mr. Horns info, but I wouldnt suggest anyone go screwing around his place!

Ya, here's what happens:

 

[MR Redneck]

I've seen that too. I thought it was funny how the BP's were going to show up and act like they were special! I'll bet the idiots didnt even have a clue the two criminals they were defending were Illegal Columbians!
They deserved to be shot! Dont break into someones home and you wont get shot for it.

 

[randmplumbingllc]

It is a contradiction against your right to remain silent. You were not given your Miranda warning before you start talking on the phone. It should not be able to be used against you, but often is.

All you want to say in a shooting you are involved in, is " My name is xxxx xxxxxxx and I respectfully request that I speak with an attorney , then I will be happy to answer your questions, on the attorneys advice." And give the operator the location, of course. Don't be a jerk about it and be very respectful.

Uufortunately, when you are trying to be helpful to the police, in supplying information, usually, in certain situations, you can be hurting yourself.

Any LEO will, or should respect that and not ask anymore questions, knowing that any statement after that could be thrown out of court.

Bottom line is that the less you open your mouth, the better it is for you.

 

[randmplumbingllc]

Interesting. I'd love to find out what aspects they are using. I'm no prosecutor but there usually isn't much in those tapes beyond identifying who shot whom, threat assessment and some basic instructions. AZ strikes me as self-defense friendly state.

Lots of things are said in 911 call. Lots of times you are on the phone with 911 til the police arrive. They usually ask you what the emergency is. Then, who got shot?, did you see who did it?, are they still there?, etc. This aides the 911 operator in getting info to the first responders, in what the situation is on the scene. ANY information you provide CAN be used AGAINST YOU !

So, even if you have the right to remain silent, your 911 statement and entire call, including your emotional state, CAN be used against YOU ! There in lies the problem, if I have the right against self incrimination, how can a recording be used against you, BEFORE you are read your rights.

 

[Texan2]

how can a recording be used against you, BEFORE you are read your rights.

I know this is going to burst alot of folks bubbles but...Miranda only applies when you are in police custody. There is nothing that requires you to be read your rights unless 2 things occur.
1.)You are arrested or detained.
2.)Police then want to quetion you.

If #1 is not present then there is no requirement for you to be "read your rights"... furthermore the 5th amendment applies to you being on the stand or in police custody and incriminating yourself.
Many recordings of various types are used to incriminate people everyday even though they were not "read their rights".
I could disect this all night, but suffice it to say that 911 tapes are perfectly legal (and should be) for both the defense AND the prosecution.

 

[MR Redneck]

I know this is going to burst alot of folks bubbles but...Miranda only applies when you are in police custody. There is nothing that requires you to be read your rights unless 2 things occur.
1.)You are arrested or detained.
2.)Police then want to quetion you.

If #1 is not present then there is no requirement for you to be "read your rights"... furthermore the 5th amendment applies to you being on the stand or in police custody and incriminating yourself.
Many recordings of various types are used to incriminate people everyday even though they were not "read their rights".
I could disect this all night, but suffice it to say that 911 tapes are perfectly legal (and should be) for both the defense AND the prosecution.

I think the 8 minutes of crime in process tape helped Mr. Joe Horn.
I think the problem Arizona had was 911 calles were being used to prosecute people who were trying to defend themselfs. In that case, it aint no good. I can also see the good that comes along with the bad. It would be hard to seperate the two.

 

[txinvestigator]

If you walk up to a cop and confess to a crime, that confession can be used against you.

In a similar way, a 911 call can be played in court. It could hurt you if you unlawfully used deadly force. It coould save you too, depending on the circumstances. There is a 911 where a woman had been harrassed and abused by her ex. He broke into her home and she called 911 and retreated into the bedroom. While on the phone, she can be heard pleading with him to go away. She finally shot him as he forced entry into her bedroom. Pretty compelling evidence.

However, if you were heard threatening someone and told dispatch, the guy who cut me off is now trying to drive away and I need to stop him, then they hear "bang bang bang" you might have a problem.

Know that your 911 call is recorded and use it to your advantage. Be smart. In an after a shooting call give your name, location, tell them someone tried to kill you and he needs an ambulance. Identify yourself as the good guy, and be sure the police know what you are dressed like when they arrive. If 911 asks you to stay on the line do so if you safely can, but other than report on the condition of the injured person, say little else. You will be upset and shaken like you have never been. Don't discuss details of the incident, not to hide things but to keep from giving inaccurate information.

Do not take an adversarial stance with LE.

 

[MR Redneck]

Someone Tried To Kill ME, He Needs AN Ambulance!!