Can a rifle be carried openly in public

[Burt Gummer]

In front of a school is breaking the law and a stop would be expected. As far as Walmart goes, that is private property and the bus sinless has every right to have you removed from the property.

Burt, how would you handle the situation in a public area. Just trying to gain insight in to your view on this matter. Assuming the person was cooperative but somewhat frustrated.

On the street in a public place is what I was referring to, not on private property.

And I worked 10 years on patrol in SE, East, and Downtown Austin and I can say the only guy with a rifle call I went to was on private property at the UT campus a few years back. He ended up shooting himself and nobody else.

And say Officer Gummer gets dispatched to "man in street carrying rifle" call. Well units will meet nearby and unrack our shotguns or in my case my patrol rifle (M4) and approach subject with rifle. He may be guy trying to take a nice stroll or he may have just murdered his family, we don't know.
We approach and watch his reactions. If he changes from normal to defensive or unslings his rifle, we will need to act fast and deploy our long guns. We will disarm him at gunpoint. Perfect scenario, he is just a guy out for a walk and he read on the internet that it's legal to carry an AR15 in public in the state of Texas. Worst case scenario, he is waiting for police response to shoot it out with us and commit suicide by cop. The key for everybody to catch is that THE POLICE DO NOT KNOW THE INTENTIONS OR EXTENT OF THE CRIMES COMMITTED UNTIL THEY INVESTIGATE.

Now some people will flip out and start saying Officer Gummer just wants to violate Rifle Guy's civil rights. Say that all you want, but Officer Gummer has seen lots of death, lots of people get shot with rifles, and has been involved in lots of gunplay himself. Detaining a subject with a rifle in response to a 9-1-1 call, which obviously ALARMED someone enough to call 9-1-1 is common practice for any dept I have ever worked with.

Now regarding CHL concealed carry, I rarely feel the safety need to disarm somebody unless I am investigating a crime higher than a traffic offense. But if you combine that I've never responded to a guy with a rifle/shotgun call in the thousands of 9-1-1 calls I've responded to except for an active shooter scenario, and that a 9-1-1 call was placed which alarmed someone enough to call, it is reasonable to detain, and temporarily disarm while I investigate whether DOC display of firearm or discharging firearm laws were violated.

Any other law enforcement personnel here respond differently to a "subject with a rifle" call?

 

[Burt Gummer]

Yes, don't believe the videos you see. Read the case law. It's readily available for those that take the time to read it and understand it. And Burt, your dumb ass statement about walking around a school with a firearm make you sound like you think all citizens that believe in their RIGHTS are idiots and of course you know right.

I said in the street in front of a school, which was your first mistake. And I did read and understand the caselaw sir, you just cannot comprehend the law enforcement ability to detain. Are you saying caselaw supports that any person displaying a firearm in public in Texas cannot be detain or identified by law enforcement? Please clarify what MY rights are as an LEO to detain a subject displaying a firearm in a public place. Use the internet or YouTube if you like, I'll wait.

Oh and which case law were you referring to in the video? List those and their USSC opinions for a simple guy like me, (I particularly like HIIBEL V. SIXTH JUDICIAL DIST. COURT OF NEV.,HUMBOLDT CTY. (03-5554) 542 U.S. 177 (2004) 118 Nev. 868, 59 P.2d 1201, affirmed.)




And I did not see your response about your legal or actual law enforcement experience other than YouTube.
Feel free to ask me mine. If it makes you feel better, I will say you are right and I've been wrong all these years as long as you promise me you will walk around in Houston with open carry and argue your rights when detained by HPD.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I wonder if its legal to carry a AR on a sling on your back in public?

The correct answer is yes, but expect to get detained because people may call 9-1-1 on you.

 

[DPMS]

So we cant openly carry a pistol but we can a rifle? Where is the sense in that?

 

[Younggun]

On the street in a public place is what I was referring to, not on private property.

And I worked 10 years on patrol in SE, East, and Downtown Austin and I can say the only guy with a rifle call I went to was on private property at the UT campus a few years back. He ended up shooting himself and nobody else.

And say Officer Gummer gets dispatched to "man in street carrying rifle" call. Well units will meet nearby and unrack our shotguns or in my case my patrol rifle (M4) and approach subject with rifle. He may be guy trying to take a nice stroll or he may have just murdered his family, we don't know.
We approach and watch his reactions. If he changes from normal to defensive or unslings his rifle, we will need to act fast and deploy our long guns. We will disarm him at gunpoint. Perfect scenario, he is just a guy out for a walk and he read on the internet that it's legal to carry an AR15 in public in the state of Texas. Worst case scenario, he is waiting for police response to shoot it out with us and commit suicide by cop. The key for everybody to catch is that THE POLICE DO NOT KNOW THE INTENTIONS OR EXTENT OF THE CRIMES COMMITTED UNTIL THEY INVESTIGATE.

Now some people will flip out and start saying Officer Gummer just wants to violate Rifle Guy's civil rights. Say that all you want, but Officer Gummer has seen lots of death, lots of people get shot with rifles, and has been involved in lots of gunplay himself. Detaining a subject with a rifle in response to a 9-1-1 call, which obviously ALARMED someone enough to call 9-1-1 is common practice for any dept I have ever worked with.

Now regarding CHL concealed carry, I rarely feel the safety need to disarm somebody unless I am investigating a crime higher than a traffic offense. But if you combine that I've never responded to a guy with a rifle/shotgun call in the thousands of 9-1-1 calls I've responded to except for an active shooter scenario, and that a 9-1-1 call was placed which alarmed someone enough to call, it is reasonable to detain, and temporarily disarm while I investigate whether DOC display of firearm or discharging firearm laws were violated.

Any other law enforcement personnel here respond differently to a "subject with a rifle" call?

It bothers me that you would feel the need to pull a shotgun or rifle on someone who has given no indication of committing a crime. It is this type of overreaction that causes a lot of the cop bashing we see and a lot of the resistance to being disarmed.

As a police officer you should be equally concerned with protecting the rights of the law abiding citizen who is walking down the street carrying his rifle instead of calling in backup and swarming him with rifles ready because some lady called 911 and the operator was to incompetent to get any details.

A woman felt alarmed, so what. Some believe ARs should be banned and would love to call 911 and see that person arrested.

The thing is, that illogical persons emotions don't really matter unless I'm carrying my rifle in a manner calculated to cause alarm.

For some reason it doesn't surprise me that most of your LE experience seems to be from the Austin area.

My experience is from hearing stories from my dad who was LEO for almost twenty years and had respect for the people he served. I also have a good relationship with the local sheriffs department who have a good deal of respect for those they serve.

I can say with out a doubt none of them would react in any way as you described. If OC passes will you be swarming every poor guy that decides its hot so he decides to take advantage of it and his liberal yuppy neighbor calls 911?

 

[Glockster69]

I wonder if its legal to carry a AR on a sling on your back in public?

The above quote is what started all of this and now it has degraded into cop bashing vs rights. While I support/defend the Constitution, we no longer live in the Wild West. It is uncommon to see someone walking around public areas with a long gun slung over their shoulder or a handgun on their hip. If you choose to do either you should expect an encounter with LE and would be wise to cooperate with same. JMO

 

[Charlie]

The above quote is what started all of this and now it has degraded into cop bashing vs rights. While I support/defend the Constitution, we no longer live in the Wild West. It is uncommon to see someone walking around public areas with a long gun slung over their shoulder or a handgun on their hip. If you choose to do either you should expect an encounter with LE and would be wise to cooperate with same. JMO

Pretty much true .................. especially for you guys that have to live in the city!

 

[M. Sage]

A person calling 9-1-1 shows they are alarmed by your carrying a rifle in public thereby generating investigation into DOC Display of firearm. Check out definitions of reasonable suspicion.

If you were an officer and 1,2,3 or however many people called 9-1-1 stating "there's a guy in the street with a gun", would you refuse to answer that call or just ignore it and hope for the best?

I respect your opinion but I wholeheartedly disagree with your facts due to my law enforcement and Penal Code experience.

They can investigate without detaining someone. Problem here is that when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

 

[M. Sage]

Was that a consent stop in MAINE? Not sure how that relates to TX Penal Code 42.01 or responding to a 9-1-1 call of a person with a gun in the street in Texas.

But you must be right. Please walk down the street with an AR 15, causing somebody to call 9-1-1 and let me know how it goes. You will probably just get detained. Also feel free to tell the officer/s that case law supports your right to carry firearms in public despite any 9-1-1 calls.

From US v DeBerry, a felon in possession conviction that followed a man with a gun call resulting in a search: "The only fact that saves the officer's stop of DeBerry, in my opinion, is the fact that it is unlawful in Illinois to carry a concealed weapon."

According to Judge Posner (7th Circuit), a MWAG call where carrying guns is legal would not be grounds to detain.

 

[M. Sage]

On the street in a public place is what I was referring to, not on private property.

And I worked 10 years on patrol in SE, East, and Downtown Austin and I can say the only guy with a rifle call I went to was on private property at the UT campus a few years back. He ended up shooting himself and nobody else.

And say Officer Gummer gets dispatched to "man in street carrying rifle" call. Well units will meet nearby and unrack our shotguns or in my case my patrol rifle (M4) and approach subject with rifle. He may be guy trying to take a nice stroll or he may have just murdered his family, we don't know.
We approach and watch his reactions. If he changes from normal to defensive or unslings his rifle, we will need to act fast and deploy our long guns. We will disarm him at gunpoint. Perfect scenario, he is just a guy out for a walk and he read on the internet that it's legal to carry an AR15 in public in the state of Texas. Worst case scenario, he is waiting for police response to shoot it out with us and commit suicide by cop. The key for everybody to catch is that THE POLICE DO NOT KNOW THE INTENTIONS OR EXTENT OF THE CRIMES COMMITTED UNTIL THEY INVESTIGATE.

Now some people will flip out and start saying Officer Gummer just wants to violate Rifle Guy's civil rights. Say that all you want, but Officer Gummer has seen lots of death, lots of people get shot with rifles, and has been involved in lots of gunplay himself. Detaining a subject with a rifle in response to a 9-1-1 call, which obviously ALARMED someone enough to call 9-1-1 is common practice for any dept I have ever worked with.

Now regarding CHL concealed carry, I rarely feel the safety need to disarm somebody unless I am investigating a crime higher than a traffic offense. But if you combine that I've never responded to a guy with a rifle/shotgun call in the thousands of 9-1-1 calls I've responded to except for an active shooter scenario, and that a 9-1-1 call was placed which alarmed someone enough to call, it is reasonable to detain, and temporarily disarm while I investigate whether DOC display of firearm or discharging firearm laws were violated.

Any other law enforcement personnel here respond differently to a "subject with a rifle" call?

Your safety, your safety, your safety...

...what about my safety?

 

[Jon Payne]

Your safety, your safety, your safety...

...what about my safety?

M.Sage, you seem to have all the answers and know what the police need to do at every incident. Quit your job as a mechanic, quit your job as a moderator (you're horrible at it) , and become a police officer. You can show all of us how it's done.

The tone you set on this forum has led me to pull my sponsorship. I will not be associated with a forum that condones cop bashing at what seems to be every other post. TGT was a really good forum, but it's gone down hill after it came back up. The lack of moderation and pissing contests is not worth my time or money and I can focus my energy elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[556.45.12]

What I think is kinda funny and sad at the same time is that legally, you're in the right walking down the street with an AR slung on your back, but if you have a flathead screwdriver in your pocket and you're not a mechanic (or ARE a mechanic, but not leaving or going to your place of work), then you're going to jail.

M.Sage, you seem to have all the answers and know what the police need to do at every incident. Quit your job as a mechanic, quit your job as a moderator (you're horrible at it) , and become a police officer. You can show all of us how it's done.

The tone you set on this forum has led me to pull my sponsorship. I will not be associated with a forum that condones cop bashing at what seems to be every other post. TGT was a really good forum, but it's gone down hill after it came back up. The lack of moderation and pissing contests is not worth my time or money and I can focus my energy elsewhere.

Chill bro. It seems pretty evenly matched here. There are LEOs on this board and there are normal people. Don't get your panties in a wad because there are dissenting opinions.

 

[Renegade]

I wonder if its legal to carry a AR on a sling on your back in public?

Ask these guys:

Houston New Black Panther Party Will Return As Poll Watchers in 2010 - YouTube

Note the actions of the cops.

 

[Shorts]

Ask these guys:

Houston New Black Panther Party Will Return As Poll Watchers in 2010 - YouTube

Note the actions of the cops.

Just watched that. Couldn't help but realize how freakin' awesome it is the impact of the show of "protesting with rifles" makes. It is a show of force on a certain level (oddly enough Kim Jong Un does this all the time). Depending what statement or show that is trying to be made, it can be quite moving to watch. I couldn't help but think what it would look like if a well dressed group that is often recognized as a "good" group would look like, proudly standing up to say "Things are ok. We got this". I liken an example to the Patriot Guard riders.

Anyway, no real input on the thread either way, just had a observation I wanted to share.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I think you're more likely to get picked on when by yourself than in a group for a number of reasons.

 

[Texanjoker]

Was that a consent stop in MAINE? Not sure how that relates to TX Penal Code 42.01 or responding to a 9-1-1 call of a person with a gun in the street in Texas.

But you must be right. Please walk down the street with an AR 15, causing somebody to call 9-1-1 and let me know how it goes. You will probably just get detained. Also feel free to tell the officer/s that case law supports your right to carry firearms in public despite any 9-1-1 calls.

Agreed 100%.

 

[Texanjoker]

It bothers me that you would feel the need to pull a shotgun or rifle on someone who has given no indication of committing a crime. It is this type of overreaction that causes a lot of the cop bashing we see and a lot of the resistance to being disarmed.

As a police officer you should be equally concerned with protecting the rights of the law abiding citizen who is walking down the street carrying his rifle instead of calling in backup and swarming him with rifles ready because some lady called 911 and the operator was to incompetent to get any details.

A woman felt alarmed, so what. Some believe ARs should be banned and would love to call 911 and see that person arrested.

The thing is, that illogical persons emotions don't really matter unless I'm carrying my rifle in a manner calculated to cause alarm.

For some reason it doesn't surprise me that most of your LE experience seems to be from the Austin area.

My experience is from hearing stories from my dad who was LEO for almost twenty years and had respect for the people he served. I also have a good relationship with the local sheriffs department who have a good deal of respect for those they serve.

I can say with out a doubt none of them would react in any way as you described. If OC passes will you be swarming every poor guy that decides its hot so he decides to take advantage of it and his liberal yuppy neighbor calls 911?

Sorry but hearing stories is not doing the job and you only heard the story's they want to tell. In the real world cops are getting shot and killed on our streets. Officer safety is a must as you never know when some nut is going to try and end your day or somebody else s day. If somebody calls 911 because somebody is running around with an AR the police will probably respond. The police will take appropriate safety measures up to what was described above based on the circumstances of that particular incident as there are many things to consider like the time, place, what is nearby, subject demeanor, ect. Maybe somebody people will be used to people running around carrying rifles and not call 911, but until that day the cops will respond. While you may not like it, I am going to follow my training that has kept me alive many years and take appropriate safety measures.

 

[TX69]

Ask these guys:

Houston New Black Panther Party Will Return As Poll Watchers in 2010 - YouTube

Note the actions of the cops.

Did they have a city permit to assemble and march? Also ..... Racist

 

[Younggun]

Sorry but hearing stories is not doing the job and you only heard the story's they want to tell. In the real world cops are getting shot and killed on our streets. Officer safety is a must as you never know when some nut is going to try and end your day or somebody else s day. If somebody calls 911 because somebody is running around with an AR the police will probably respond. The police will take appropriate safety measures up to what was described above based on the circumstances of that particular incident as there are many things to consider like the time, place, what is nearby, subject demeanor, ect. Maybe somebody people will be used to people running around carrying rifles and not call 911, but until that day the cops will respond. While you may not like it, I am going to follow my training that has kept me alive many years and take appropriate safety measures.

Sorry, but I've been a big boy for quite sometime now and know how many times my dad came very close to death. From getting halfway through a window only to be stopped by a gun pointed at him to having 3 vehicles trying to bash his car to pieces after lighting up a stolen car.

What I've heard has not been sugar coated. Yet my dad never pulled up on the scene and played super duper swat guy on someone who was doing something legal.

But hey, why shouldn't I expect to be surrounded by cops with rifles pointed at my head when I've broken no law, this is Amerika after all.

I'm not a cop basher, I generally defend cops on this forum and have always made it a point to do so in my daily conversations if someone starts up with the "cops are asshole" crap. This crap is just ridiculous though.

 

[CZ guy]

Any other law enforcement personnel here respond differently to a "subject with a rifle" call?

Absolutely not. Some folks here believe officers have ESP and should know the guy with the rifle is Joe the Goodguy and not some criminal returning from or going to his next job. And anyone that thinks a crook would not openly display a tool of his trade is wrong. Plus, the fellow might have warrants, a felon in possession of a weapon or simply in need of an attitude adjustment.

Also, it is ridiculous to assume a cop doesn't worry about being out-gunned. So, if he doesn't possess a superior weapon he WILL make sure his side has superior number of participants.