Can a rifle be carried openly in public

[Younggun]

Anyone that is openly carrying a modern sporting rifle in an environment that has no use for such a weapon is only doing it to garner attention for himself. If there is not any legitimate use for a long gun, why carry one? There are better places to peacock around with a rifle. This subject seems to only be supported by individuals seeking attention, and alarming law enforcement, civilians, and liberals. Legal or not, why do you feel the need parade around with a firearm?
Please spend your time in a more constructive manner. Ramming your 2nd amendment rights down the throats of people that do not fully understand them will only cause you unwanted attention, and give the liberals more ammunition to repel lawful individuals.

Legitimate reasons

Self defense

To get from point A to point B where your rifle will be used for lawful purposes.

So people will realize the someone carrying a gun is not a crazed maniac they need to fear an firearms are not evil things and carrying them will not have the "blood in the streets" effect(same reason for supporting OC.

So maybe law enforcement will become more accustomed to it and it will be easier for law abiding citizens to carry their rifle without dealing with 911 calls and cops assuming they are criminals.

 

[Blind Sniper]

Is it odd that I read the first three lines of IXLR8's post and thought "this guy sounds like a liberal plant"?

 

[M. Sage]

M.Sage, you seem to have all the answers and know what the police need to do at every incident. Quit your job as a mechanic, quit your job as a moderator (you're horrible at it) , and become a police officer. You can show all of us how it's done.

The tone you set on this forum has led me to pull my sponsorship. I will not be associated with a forum that condones cop bashing at what seems to be every other post. TGT was a really good forum, but it's gone down hill after it came back up. The lack of moderation and pissing contests is not worth my time or money and I can focus my energy elsewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A: I can't run. My left knee is complete garbage. Even if I went back to the days when I wanted to become a police officer, that's a no go.

B: You're saying that I, as a tax payer, don't have a right to question and yes criticize the police my taxes pay for? Interesting...

C: Where am I bashing? I have an opinion, but I'm not saying that cops should get hurt or anything like that. I'm criticizing the world view some have because my opinion (formed dealing with cops in California) is that this world view will lead to a lot greater strife between citizens and police.

The bashing I've seen so far is in comments like, "some here want cops to have ESP!" Nobody is saying that. We're saying that there needs to be a bit of care taken to respect the rights of people who aren't doing anything wrong.

D: If you want a forum that doesn't allow anybody to question or criticize police, check out Calguns.net.

 

[M. Sage]

I should have known better on this forum to even say attitude adjustment. But when trying to investigate a situation and you are met with an uncooperative attitude and a foul mouth, we have a whole thick book of stuff that can be applied. The "citizen" determines the degree used.

Frankly, you should have known better than say it anywhere.

If I'm doing nothing wrong, what harm is uncooperative and foul-mouthed? FWIW, in real life my language is pretty blue. It's not really conscious at this point, it's just what comes out.

 

[Burt Gummer]

It bothers me that you would feel the need to pull a shotgun or rifle on someone who has given no indication of committing a crime. It is this type of overreaction that causes a lot of the cop bashing we see and a lot of the resistance to being disarmed.

As a police officer you should be equally concerned with protecting the rights of the law abiding citizen who is walking down the street carrying his rifle instead of calling in backup and swarming him with rifles ready because some lady called 911 and the operator was to incompetent to get any details.

A woman felt alarmed, so what. Some believe ARs should be banned and would love to call 911 and see that person arrested.

The thing is, that illogical persons emotions don't really matter unless I'm carrying my rifle in a manner calculated to cause alarm.

For some reason it doesn't surprise me that most of your LE experience seems to be from the Austin area.

My experience is from hearing stories from my dad who was LEO for almost twenty years and had respect for the people he served. I also have a good relationship with the local sheriffs department who have a good deal of respect for those they serve.

I can say with out a doubt none of them would react in any way as you described. If OC passes will you be swarming every poor guy that decides its hot so he decides to take advantage of it and his liberal yuppy neighbor calls 911?

You asked what tactics we currently use (more specifically how Officer Gummer would respond) and then you insult me. Fair trade I guess, no wait that's not.

If YOU went to a call with a subject with a rifle and you approached without any weapon at the ready or at least unholstered, you would be at the mercy of the unknown person with a rifle, hoping you can draw and return fire before he empties a magazing into your torso, shredding your body and killing you. Here is a feel good video you would view in the police academy-

Full Verison Texas DPS Trooper killed after shots fired - YouTube


You train on approaching an armed subject with superior firepower, numbers, and tactics. Will luck on your side, you may not get killed. Have you ever served in the military or seen people shot or otherwise killed up close?

If you are telling me that I approach a situation with an armed subject with superior firepower and my rifle ready, and you disagree with my position, I dare say you have little or no tactical training or experience. And yes my training and patrol experience is only in Austin. I am assuming you think negatively of my department.

You qualify your critique of an experienced police officer by stating you heard STORIES from your father who was an LEO. My experience is from 7 years as an airborne infantryman and leader, plus the last 10 years as a patrol officer, street supervisor, and detective in my department.

Your opinion is duly noted and hopefully I have shed some light on proper tactics when facing an armed threat.
In case you did not notice, several law enforcement PRACTITIONERS have chimed in. Maybe if you don't trust a veteran soldier and police officer with nearly two decades of tactical and combat experience you will listen to others.

But this is the internet where everybody knows somebody elses job better than they do.

 

[fuelfather]

Anyone that is openly carrying a modern sporting rifle in an environment that has no use for such a weapon is only doing it to garner attention for himself. If there is not any legitimate use for a long gun, why carry one? There are better places to peacock around with a rifle. This subject seems to only be supported by individuals seeking attention, and alarming law enforcement, civilians, and liberals. Legal or not, why do you feel the need parade around with a firearm?
Please spend your time in a more constructive manner. Ramming your 2nd amendment rights down the throats of people that do not fully understand them will only cause you unwanted attention, and give the liberals more ammunition to repel lawful individuals.

We have to see a parade for every group under the sun or see them flaunt what is not even a constitutional right in public, but I have to hide my constitutional rights and abilities to carry a rifle or shotgun in public so I do not offend somebody. This is just more of the same political correctness that I feel has been choking and killing this country in the name of feel good laws and appeasing behavior.

I understand a cop will be nervous, but how is there a difference from Joe citizen in the country versus Joe citizen in the city.

 

[Charlie]

Simplicity is the key. If a citizen is breaking the law, they should be dealt with accordingly. If a citizen is NOT breaking the law, that makes them law abiding and should not be harassed by anyone.

 

[M. Sage]

Simplicity is the key. If a citizen is breaking the law, they should be dealt with accordingly. If a citizen is NOT breaking the law, that makes them law abiding and should not be harassed by anyone.

Yeah and no. There are signs that someone has, is or is about to break the law. Those are grounds for stopping them and finding out what's going on. The debate here is about what constitutes a reasonable assessment of what those things are.

 

[TX69]

Anyone that is openly carrying a modern sporting rifle in an environment that has no use for such a weapon is only doing it to garner attention for himself. If there is not any legitimate use for a long gun, why carry one? There are better places to peacock around with a rifle. This subject seems to only be supported by individuals seeking attention, and alarming law enforcement, civilians, and liberals. Legal or not, why do you feel the need parade around with a firearm?
Please spend your time in a more constructive manner. Ramming your 2nd amendment rights down the throats of people that do not fully understand them will only cause you unwanted attention, and give the liberals more ammunition to repel lawful individuals.

Jim Zumbo

 

[Charlie]

If that's the case, then law enforcement needs to be pretty sure someone has done it or is about to do it (which is probably tougher). Nothing wrong with investigating, making a decision and acting on it, but until there is something to substantiate the action, citizens should not be harassed or intimidated. Stopping and finding out what's going on is just fine.

 

[M. Sage]

If that's the case, then law enforcement needs to be pretty sure someone has done it or is about to do it (which is probably tougher). Nothing wrong with investigating, making a decision and acting on it, but until there is something to substantiate the action, citizens should not be harassed or intimidated.

That's supposed to be the standard as I understand it.

 

[Younggun]

You asked what tactics we currently use (more specifically how Officer Gummer would respond) and then you insult me. Fair trade I guess, no wait that's not.

If YOU went to a call with a subject with a rifle and you approached without any weapon at the ready or at least unholstered, you would be at the mercy of the unknown person with a rifle, hoping you can draw and return fire before he empties a magazing into your torso, shredding your body and killing you. Here is a feel good video you would view in the police academy-

Full Verison Texas DPS Trooper killed after shots fired - YouTube


You train on approaching an armed subject with superior firepower, numbers, and tactics. Will luck on your side, you may not get killed. Have you ever served in the military or seen people shot or otherwise killed up close?

If you are telling me that I approach a situation with an armed subject with superior firepower and my rifle ready, and you disagree with my position, I dare say you have little or no tactical training or experience. And yes my training and patrol experience is only in Austin. I am assuming you think negatively of my department.

You qualify your critique of an experienced police officer by stating you heard STORIES from your father who was an LEO. My experience is from 7 years as an airborne infantryman and leader, plus the last 10 years as a patrol officer, street supervisor, and detective in my department.

Your opinion is duly noted and hopefully I have shed some light on proper tactics when facing an armed threat.
In case you did not notice, several law enforcement PRACTITIONERS have chimed in. Maybe if you don't trust a veteran soldier and police officer with nearly two decades of tactical and combat experience you will listen to others.

But this is the internet where everybody knows somebody elses job better than they do.

Sorry, the "I'm a veteran" line doesn't work when your talking to a veteran. And their are many on this forum. Yes, I've seen my share of crap, no I don't talk about it.

Keep in mind you are not in the military anymore and different rules apply.

At any rate, you should be assessing the situation. My rifle on a sling is equivalent to you gun being holstered. It is as non threatening as it could possibly be.

Hopefully some of this has shed some light on the feelings of those who are paying you to serve them.

You chose a career with inherent risks, your job is to uphold the law. That includes protecting the rights of law abiding citizens even if you disagree with it. That's what the people of Austin are paying for.

And I was not surprised that you worked in Austin because of the atmosphere that has infected that city. It was not intended as an insult.

One last question. You say you approach an "armed suspect", what is the person suspected of? What law is he suspected of breaking?

 

[Libertarian_Longhorn]

D: If you want a forum that doesn't allow anybody to question or criticize police, check out Calguns.net.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Burt Gummer]

We all know it was Shipley's.

Sorry, the "I'm a veteran" line doesn't work when your talking to a veteran. And their are many on this forum. Yes, I've seen my share of crap, no I don't talk about it.

Keep in mind you are not in the military anymore and different rules apply.

At any rate, you should be assessing the situation. My rifle on a sling is equivalent to you gun being holstered. It is as non threatening as it could possibly be.

Hopefully some of this has shed some light on the feelings of those who are paying you to serve them.

You chose a career with inherent risks, your job is to uphold the law. That includes protecting the rights of law abiding citizens even if you disagree with it. That's what the people of Austin are paying for.

And I was not surprised that you worked in Austin because of the atmosphere that has infected that city. It was not intended as an insult.

One last question. You say you approach an "armed suspect", what is the person suspected of? What law is he suspected of breaking?

Glad you are a veteran too. Did you bring a slung weapon into a confrontation with your enemy wielding an AK47? What was your MOS etc? If you don't want to talk about it thats cool, we all don't have pride in our service like I do. Maybe your weapons training was different than mine or you have different law enforcement training which encourages you to approach armed subjects at a tactical disadvantage. I feel like i'm trying to teach Chinese to a monkey here.

And bash my job and the city I serve all you want, it does not make you a better man or a braver one.
As I've posted before, Texas has DOC display of firear(TX PC 42.01). If a caller reports a shot fired then the amount of offenses you would have to investigate expands. But a subject carrying a rifle in a city which alarms someone enough to driventhem to call 9-1-1, it deserves investigation and caution. Too many people think that if they aren't clubbing baby seals in front of an officer, they cannot be detained.

So to answer your question it would be investigating Disorderly Conduct. You only need reasonable suspicion to detain but probable cause to arrest.

Thanks for your service, despite our tactical disagreements.

 

[Glockster69]

If you don't want to talk about it thats cool, we all don't have pride in our service like I do.

WTH made you say that? Completely uncalled for.

 

[c_m_shooter]

I haven't been bothered yet when going to matches with my Garand slung on my back on the motorcycle. Sometimes when I stop to eat breakfast they ask if it's loaded. I just politely tell them no and go about finding somplace to sit.

 

[Charlie]

I think the point we are trying to make is ......................."we" are NOT the enemy! I support law enforcement, have worked side-by-side with them, have not ever been arrested, and I obey the laws. I am not the enemy! Walking down the road with a rifle is not illegal and doesn't make me the enemy.

Edit to add: I have great respect for law enforcement and admire folks like you that do that tough job. All of us that are not law enforcement are not criminals. It should not be LEO against everybody else, it should be LEO against criminals.

 

[IXLR8]

Is it odd that I read the first three lines of IXLR8's post and thought "this guy sounds like a liberal plant"?

I assure you that I am a gun loving supporter of every one of your constitutional rights. If you have a need to carry a MSR in public, go ahead. Your the one that will have to live with the consequences. I guess you are all lawyered up for amount of problems that you are about to bring upon yourself.
Be smart about it. There is a time and a place for everything, including carrying your rifle around. There are however some places that will paint a big red bullseye on you and your perceived rights to carry wherever you wish. If you want to OC, then go ahead. Strategically I think it is a poor decision, a concealed weapon provides more options. You might as well wear your Moan Labe t-shirt and carry a Gadsden flag so that there is no doubt about your conviction to carry a firearm...

 

[Younggun]

Glad you are a veteran too. Did you bring a slung weapon into a confrontation with your enemy wielding an AK47? What was your MOS etc? If you don't want to talk about it thats cool, we all don't have pride in our service like I do. Maybe your weapons training was different than mine or you have different law enforcement training which encourages you to approach armed subjects ata atactical disadvantage. I feel like i'm trying to teach Chinese to a monkey here.

And bash my job and the city I serve all you want, it does not make you a better man or a braver one.
As I've posted before, Texas has DOC display of firearm ordinance (TX PC 42.01). If a caller reports a shot fired then the amount of offenses you would have to investigate expands. But a subject carrying a rifle in a city which alarms someone enough to driventhem to call 9-1-1, it deserves investigation and caution. Too many people think that if they aren't clubbing baby seals in front of an officer, they cannot be detained.

So to answer your question it would be investigating Disorderly Conduct. You only need reasonable suspicion to detain but probable cause to arrest.

Thanks for your service, despite our tactical disagreements.

I have plenty of pride in my service, doesn't mean I need to tell everybody and their mother about it and if there are things I choose not to discuss frankly its none of your business why. Guess us poor country folk are just funny like that.

Your little jab is total BS. I've typed several replies and none seem to sum up what I want to say.

I also do not apply combat tactics to civilian life, doing so would land me in jail pretty quickly. You are on US soil dealing with citizens, not enemy combatants.

I believe Charlie's post sums things up pretty well.

 

[Younggun]

I assure you that I am a gun loving supporter of every one of your constitutional rights. If you have a need to carry a MSR in public, go ahead. Your the one that will have to live with the consequences. I guess you are all lawyered up for amount of problems that you are about to bring upon yourself.
Be smart about it. There is a time and a place for everything, including carrying your rifle around. There are however some places that will paint a big red bullseye on you and your perceived rights to carry wherever you wish. If you want to OC, then go ahead. Strategically I think it is a poor decision, a concealed weapon provides more options. You might as well wear your Moan Labe t-shirt and carry a Gadsden flag so that there is no doubt about your conviction to carry a firearm...

It is legal, why should there be any consequences to not breaking any laws?