Car/SUV battery, what to buy . . what to avoid?

[TreyG-20]

The problem with car/truck/tractor batteries etc... is how they are stored and for how long. I've worked in shops that sold batteries and have seen some sit on shelves for 2 years before being sold. Just sitting not being regularly charged or discharged. Also if you go somewhere and see new batteries sitting on the ground, do not buy them. Batteries must be stored off the ground.

Yes most batteries will a have a production date sticker, but how easy are they to peel off and replace?

 

[mongoose]

One added benafit of Auto Zone for me is the free install. With my lack of strength, lifting a battery out of my truck is an undertaking. Auto Zone changes batteries at no cost.

 

[pronstar]

Only a handful of companies make all of the batteries you can buy.

Sure, they’re made to individual specs, but battery longevity is largely dependent on materials and tolerances.

Good info at a glance here and elsewhere:

Who makes car batteries in US? - Answers

The majority of car batteries are created by 3 manufacturers - Delphi, Exide and Johnson Controls Industries. Delphi makes some EverStart models sold in Walmart and ACDelco. Johnson Control Industries makes Duralast seen in Autozone stores, Diehard - sold in Sears, Kirkland - the Costco brand...

www.answers.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Axxe55]

One added benafit of Auto Zone for me is the free install. With my lack of strength, lifting a battery out of my truck is an undertaking. Auto Zone changes batteries at no cost.

Most any dealership, or even independent auto repair shops will replace the battery if you buy it from them. Free is kind of a relative word when used with auto repair. And you need to remember, the parts salesperson at most auto parts stores, are not mechanics. Travel at your own risk.

 

[SA_Steve]

My 2005 Toyota 4 Runner Panasonic battery (all made in Japan) had a good run: 9 years and 7 months.

 

[Sasquatch]

Costco sells interstate - or at least they did last time I had to buy a battery a few years back

Since you used to sell them, do you happen to know if the branding is like mattresses and oil filters? ie: 2 or 3 manufacturers making all of the 20 or 30 different brands with the only difference being the brand sticker on the outside of the battery?

Yes, Costco years ago switched out from selling a Kirkland branded battery, to selling Interstate batteries instead. Kind of sucked, because they offered a 100 month warranty, with the first 3 years being free-replacement, on the Kirkland labelled batteries. Interstate batteries from Costco IIRC only have a 3 year free replacement warranty, with no pro-rata part.

As for the second piece - yes, there are 3 major US battery makers, and then you get some imported batteries from Korea.

The three major US players are Exide, Johnson Controls, and East Penn.

Exide sells under their own label, and they rebrand for a lot of stores. In my own experience with them - having bought Exide batteries prior to selling them, and then having to deal with them from the retailer / warranter standpoint - they're trash. I had some Exide deep cycle batteries for a boat I used to own, that only lasted a year before failing.

When AAA began their mobile battery service program, we were selling Exide batteries. They had a 15+% failure rate in the first year, and that was in a moderate climate, not a hot climate like Texas or Arizona or SoCal. After three years of consistantly poor warranty issues, AAA dropped Exide and adopted East Penn batteries.

The East Penn batteries - which they sell under their own Deka brand, as well as relabelling (like I mentioned, the last Duracell branded car and boat batteries were East Penn made, as were the last Die Hard batteries I saw, plus I've seen NAPA, O'Reilly, and AutoZone store brands use the East Penn batteries from time to time)

Johnson Controls makes Interstate batteries, Optima batteries, and relabels for a handful of others. IIRC - California AAA pulled out of the national program, and they were selling Johnson Controls made batteries in So Cal, because they thought they held up better to hot weather.

I would avoid Korean made batteries like the damn plague. With AAA's battery program, its a nation-wide warranty, 3 year free replacement, 3 year pro-rata on top of it. In hot climates, especially in Arizona, the typical battery life is 2 to 2.5 years per AAA's bean counters. Arizona sells/sold cheap Korean batteries that had horrible failure rates from our own experience. They went cheap because they knew they'd be replacing damn near every battery inside the free replacement period.

There was a time when we could not get most of our East Penn batteries - we were told by the rep that they'd had a fire in one of their production facilities and all of our main batteries - the ones that went into Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and some domestic vehicles - were damn hard to get for a couple months. We were getting the Korean batteries trucked up from Arizona. Those things failed spectacularly, and for a year and a half after we got our normal East Penn supplies back, we were seeing failures of the Korean stuff anywhere from 2 months to a year and a half on those batteries. It pissed a lot of people off because of the inconvenience, but most were ultimately replaced with a far better battery.

Costco's retail price on Interstate Batteries was not much more than we paid wholesale for our East Penn batteries, thanks to Costco's buying power. When I have to replace my own vehicle battery, I'm probably just going to go to Costco and get the Interstate they sell, which is comparable in amperage to the East Penn battery I have now.

When you buy a battery, you're paying primarily for 3 things - first & foremost - warranty. Usually the more expensive batteries have longer warranty periods. Second - cranking amps. Generally the higher priced batteries are going to be rated for higher cold cranking amps than the cheap stuff. And third - quality.

I will say this too - at least with Johnson Controls and East Penn batteries - they *always* tested in stronger than their stickered rating by 20+% whereas Exides and the Korean stuff were typically within 5% plus or minus of what the stickered rating was. That's another sign of a better quality battery. The East Penn 650 CCA group 24F battery we sold, for example, almost always tested in between 800 and 850 CCA when new. The brand new Interstates I've tested were similar.

Another thing to look at - battery type. Lead acid is the standard battery. There are improvements to that tech - valve regulated lead acids for example which tend to have a bit better lifespan. Then you have AGM - which is what Optima batteries are - and there are two general types of those - spiral cell and flat cell. AGM batteries are where the auto industry is shifting too, because AGM batteries handle heat extremes better, offer more stable power output, they are lighter (upto 30% in some cases) AND some can be mounted sideways. AGM batteries, unlike lead acid batteries, aren't just liquid acid and lead screens - they use a more sponge-like material so you don't have acid sloshing around and leaking. AGM's tend to come with a 20-30% price premium. A new car spec'd for AGM can only use an AGM, whereas you can put AGM's into most older vehicles with no issues. Put a lead acid into a vehicle spec'd for AGM and watch it burn out the battery and maybe the alternator.

Lithium batteries are hitting the market too - but I see them more in deep cycle applications, vs cranking battery applications. Lithiums are supposed to be half the weight - makes them great for boat batteries for running electronics and trolling motors. Lithium batteries are stupid expensive right now though, from what I've seen its double or even triple the cost of a comparable lead acid or AGM battery.

 

[Axxe55]

Only a handful of companies make all of the batteries you can buy.

Sure, they’re made to individual specs, but battery longevity is largely dependent on materials and tolerances.

Good info at a glance here and elsewhere:

Who makes car batteries in US? - Answers

The majority of car batteries are created by 3 manufacturers - Delphi, Exide and Johnson Controls Industries. Delphi makes some EverStart models sold in Walmart and ACDelco. Johnson Control Industries makes Duralast seen in Autozone stores, Diehard - sold in Sears, Kirkland - the Costco brand...

www.answers.com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Quite true. Many of the battery manufacturers moved their manufacturing operations out of the country some years ago because of increased regulations and the costs of manufacturing in the United States.

 

[Sasquatch]

The problem with car/truck/tractor batteries etc... is how they are stored and for how long. I've worked in shops that sold batteries and have seen some sit on shelves for 2 years before being sold. Just sitting not being regularly charged or discharged. Also if you go somewhere and see new batteries sitting on the ground, do not buy them. Batteries must be stored off the ground.

Yes most batteries will a have a production date sticker, but how easy are they to peel off and replace?

RE the bolded part:

This is not true with modern batteries. This goes back to the days where batteries were literally wood cases covered with tar. Setting them on the ground would cause problems. Modern plastic cased batteries will not have any issue setting right on the ground. They will not discharge sitting on concrete, or dirt.

As far as how long batteries sit on shelves - THAT is the biggest what-if when buying a battery. It'd avoid getting a battery from a low-volume place, simply because the stock may be old, and who knows IF they are properly rotating through stock.

When you buy a battery from a reputable manufacturer, you'll see a date-code sticker on that battery. Old school stickers used letter-number codes, like A4 for example. The letter corresponded to the month the battery was filled & sealed, the number was the last digit of the year.

Newer stickers were going to month-year with rotate-dates on them as well - reputable retailers will be rotating their "old" bettery inventory out within 3-6 months. Those batteries go back to the distributor/manufacturer for testing and charging if necessary, or they'll get sold off as seconds or restickered as a low-tier battery.

With the AAA program, for example, we rotated battery stock every 120 days if a battery did not sell. We had a freshness guarantee. Its also why we would run the same battery/charging system test on brand new batteries after installation, to verify the new battery was good and charged from the factory. Occasionally you would get a battery that either did NOT have electrolyte, or hadn't been charged.

A high-volume retailer like Costco, AutoZone, O'Reilly's (at least in busy markets) - you're less likely to get an old battery. Especially if you are driving a fairly common vehicle.

 

[mongoose]

Most any dealership, or even independent auto repair shops will replace the battery if you buy it from them. Free is kind of a relative word when used with auto repair. And you need to remember, the parts salesperson at most auto parts stores, are not mechanics. Travel at your own risk.

Oh, I monitor them. It is kind of difficult to mess up a battery swap.

 

[Axxe55]

Oh, I monitor them. It is kind of difficult to mess up a battery swap.

Well, after spending most of my career in various related auto repair fields, that would not be my opinion, or experience from a professional viewpoint.

But, YMMV, or you have just been lucky so far. Auto repair, even the most simple and basic of repairs, you many times get what you pay for.

You might be amazed at the number of repairs I have had to do on vehicles, when the customer was getting free repair as a service of buying a part. And since it was free, if they screw up, (and they do quite often.) you don't have a lot of recourse in them paying or fixing the damages, because it was free.

 

[Sasquatch]

Oh, I monitor them. It is kind of difficult to mess up a battery swap.

You'd think! Its really easy to mess it up though - wrong battery, put the ground on the positive and the positive on the ground, or hooking the ground up first then they lay their wrench across the positive terminal and some grounded part on the car...

I'm not immune and I've had a couple booboos, and I (or rather, my company) paid for more "booboos" by new employees than I'd have liked.

For common cars, for instance - the Group 24 battery. Some older Hondas and Toyotas use that battery. Then there's the 24F/24R. Identical size, but terminal orientation is reversed. Same with the Group 35 and Group 25 - identical casings and specs usually, but the 25 and 35 swap terminal positions.

And there's a reason why you unhook the ground first, and install it last. Some cars are more sensitive than others to the voltage spikes that can occur. We flat out stopped working on SAABs because of their stupidly easy nature to zap with a less than perfect battery swap and weird electrical engineering.

 

[Axxe55]

You'd think! Its really easy to mess it up though - wrong battery, put the ground on the positive and the positive on the ground, or hooking the ground up first then they lay their wrench across the positive terminal and some grounded part on the car...

I'm not immune and I've had a couple booboos, and I (or rather, my company) paid for more "booboos" by new employees than I'd have liked.

For common cars, for instance - the Group 24 battery. Some older Hondas and Toyotas use that battery. Then there's the 24F/24R. Identical size, but terminal orientation is reversed. Same with the Group 35 and Group 25 - identical casings and specs usually, but the 25 and 35 swap terminal positions.

And there's a reason why you unhook the ground first, and install it last. Some cars are more sensitive than others to the voltage spikes that can occur. We flat out stopped working on SAABs because of their stupidly easy nature to zap with a less than perfect battery swap and weird electrical engineering.

QFT on that.

Sometimes it can damage sensitive electrical components if the battery isn't installed correctly.

With some of the newer vehicles, just replacing the battery can lead to having the vehicle resorting to relearning critical engine functions and proper running.

 

[Sasquatch]

QFT on that.

Sometimes it can damage sensitive electrical components if the battery isn't installed correctly.

With some of the newer vehicles, just replacing the battery can lead to having the vehicle resorting to relearning critical engine functions and proper running.

Yeah, a lot of them utilize computer controlled charging and require a computer reset, others require "registration" of the battery with the ECU. A lot of the shops offering battery swaps don't have the proper scan tools to do that, because for a long time they were expensive as hell and could be proprietary. I wouldn't do swaps on newer German stuff because of that, instead I had a friend who owned a German-centric shop, and referred all my customers with BMW, Mercedes, Audi and newer VW to him. He charged $75 just to register/reset, on top of the battery.

 

[SA_Steve]

Something I've forgot about to ask: Will Costco / Sam's / Walmart sell you a carry out battery like the auto stores do?
I'd like to change my own and not risk losing ECM / Radio etc. stored values. (I have a scheme/device that makes this easy)

 

[Sasquatch]

Something I've forgot about to ask: Will Costco / Sam's / Walmart sell you a carry out battery like the auto stores do?
I'd like to change my own and not risk losing ECM / Radio etc. stored values. (I have a scheme/device that makes this easy)

Yes. Last I knew, Costco stopped installing batteries all together, due to liability. Walmart/Sams is the same - I think they'll offer install if they have the auto center, but even the stores that don't, have batteries and they're carry-out. Just remember to either take a core in with you, or return your core for the refund!

 

[oldag]

I have had good service from Walmart's better batteries (not their cheapest, usually a mid-line if available) for about 30 years now.

 

[oldag]

Something I've forgot about to ask: Will Costco / Sam's / Walmart sell you a carry out battery like the auto stores do?
I'd like to change my own and not risk losing ECM / Radio etc. stored values. (I have a scheme/device that makes this easy)

WM will. You just bring the old battery back to get the core fee credited.

 

[dsgrey]

One added benafit of Auto Zone for me is the free install. With my lack of strength, lifting a battery out of my truck is an undertaking. Auto Zone changes batteries at no cost.

Not that I would trust them but my factory auxillary battery (AGM for stop/start) requires pulling the fuse block under the hood to obtain access.

 

[dsgrey]

Something I've forgot about to ask: Will Costco / Sam's / Walmart sell you a carry out battery like the auto stores do?
I'd like to change my own and not risk losing ECM / Radio etc. stored values. (I have a scheme/device that makes this easy)

4 years ago I did a carry out from Sams and I've done plenty of carry outs from Walmart.

 

[oldag]

I have noted something. If the battery is located in the trunk or underneath the floor boards, a typical battery will last 6-7 years. Due to not being exposed to the heat of the engine compartment.