Chauvin guilty on all counts

Younggun

Ginger Avenger
TGT Supporter
Admin
Jul 31, 2011
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hill co.
Waiting for someone to provide some kind of evidence that the restraint used in Floyd was actually fatal in any other case. Maybe in one of the 200+ times it was used in that department in the previous year.


Otherwise, reasonable doubt.


Chauvin isn’t getting charged with a Floyd’s death. He’s been charged with anything and everything anyone doesn’t like about law enforcement. People are making him the avatar for everything that hurts their feelings, just like the left did with Trump. And he’s being forced to pay the price for everything anyone believes police have ever been responsible for, imagined or not.


LE should walk away in these areas. Give the people what they want and let them deal with it.


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Axxe55

Just a man, and his dogs.
Dec 15, 2019
16,665
113
In the Deep East Texas Pineywoods!
Waiting for someone to provide some kind of evidence that the restraint used in Floyd was actually fatal in any other case. Maybe in one of the 200+ times it was used in that department in the previous year.


Otherwise, reasonable doubt.


Chauvin isn’t getting charged with a Floyd’s death. He’s been charged with anything and everything anyone doesn’t like about law enforcement. People are making him the avatar for everything that hurts their feelings, just like the left did with Trump. And he’s being forced to pay the price for everything anyone believes police have ever been responsible for, imagined or not.


LE should walk away in these areas. Give the people what they want and let them deal with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think you posted those numbers before in this thread, and I think you mentioned that this restraint method is/was approved by that police department. I would say this, just because it has been used before, and no one died as result, doesn't in itself make it a safe means of restraining a person. In Chauvin's case, as we now know Floyd was on Fentynal, and at almost four times the lethal amount to kill a person. So Floyd's death could be a combination of factors that contributed to his own death.

With all that said, none of that IMO points to Chauvin being guilty of any murder charges. At the very, very least, again IMO, negligent homicide. IF Floyd's death was a result of the restraint method used, and it was their approved departmental method, then that police department is responsible for Floyd's death, not Chauvin.

I would also add, maybe that police department, and any other LE agency using that particular restraint method, might need to re-think that, or study training and use of that restraint so this doesn't happen again.
 

Younggun

Ginger Avenger
TGT Supporter
Admin
Jul 31, 2011
51,641
113
hill co.
I think you posted those numbers before in this thread, and I think you mentioned that this restraint method is/was approved by that police department. I would say this, just because it has been used before, and no one died as result, doesn't in itself make it a safe means of restraining a person. In Chauvin's case, as we now know Floyd was on Fentynal, and at almost four times the lethal amount to kill a person. So Floyd's death could be a combination of factors that contributed to his own death.

With all that said, none of that IMO points to Chauvin being guilty of any murder charges. At the very, very least, again IMO, negligent homicide. IF Floyd's death was a result of the restraint method used, and it was their approved departmental method, then that police department is responsible for Floyd's death, not Chauvin.

I would also add, maybe that police department, and any other LE agency using that particular restraint method, might need to re-think that, or study training and use of that restraint so this doesn't happen again.
If he had been found of manslaughter I might disagree on grounds that it still doesn’t meet the burden of “beyond reasonable doubt”, but at least the charge would be appropriate for the circumstances and there is at least an argument to be made that if he had reacted sooner it might have changed the outcome and his inaction was negligent. It could be a reasonable discussion.


What we saw was the state and department throwing an officer under the bus to protect themselves from public backlash created by a media narrative that’s been gaining steam since Mike Brown was shot.

Given the circumstances, I can’t support or entertain any arguments that this trial had a just outcome and hope he gets a mistrial or appeal. Our courts shouldn’t be swayed by rioting mobs and inaccurate or incomplete stories pushed by the media.


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Axxe55

Just a man, and his dogs.
Dec 15, 2019
16,665
113
In the Deep East Texas Pineywoods!
If he had been found of manslaughter I might disagree on grounds that it still doesn’t meet the burden of “beyond reasonable doubt”, but at least the charge would be appropriate for the circumstances and there is at least an argument to be made that if he had reacted sooner it might have changed the outcome and his inaction was negligent. It could be a reasonable discussion.


What we saw was the state and department throwing an officer under the bus to protect themselves from public backlash created by a media narrative that’s been gaining steam since Mike Brown was shot.

Given the circumstances, I can’t support or entertain any arguments that this trial had a just outcome and hope he gets a mistrial or appeal. Our courts shouldn’t be swayed by rioting mobs and inaccurate or incomplete stories pushed by the media.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Personally, from newer information that has come forth, especially the ME's report on Floyd, I'd probably have a hard time convicting Chauvin on manslaughter charges.

I looked up Fentanyl poisoning to understand the side effects of the drug. Found this to be quite interesting:

Can using fentanyl poison me?
Yes, it can poison you if you take too much. Early signs of fentanyl poisoning may include:

  • sleepiness
  • trouble breathing (it may sound like snoring)
  • slow, shallow breathing
  • cold, clammy skin
  • unresponsiveness to pain or a person’s voice
The most dangerous side effect of fentanyl is it can cause you to stop breathing, which can lead to death.

IMO, that is pretty close to describing Floyd's reactions that day with Chauvin and the other officers.

The guilty verdict, IMO was an appeasement for the masses and the mob. I believe Chauvin may have been made the sacrificial lamb to help quieten the masses from protesting and rioting. If that is true, there was no justice served for anyone, because the truth was covered up.
 

Rhino

Well-Known
Jan 22, 2009
1,776
113
DFW Area
Waiting for someone to provide some kind of evidence that the restraint used in Floyd was actually fatal in any other case. Maybe in one of the 200+ times it was used in that department in the previous year.

Otherwise, reasonable doubt.

Chauvin isn’t getting charged with a Floyd’s death. He’s been charged with anything and everything anyone doesn’t like about law enforcement. People are making him the avatar for everything that hurts their feelings, just like the left did with Trump. And he’s being forced to pay the price for everything anyone believes police have ever been responsible for, imagined or not.


LE should walk away in these areas. Give the people what they want and let them deal with it.
Some are doing that. Others, like me aren't, and your conflation isn't helpful.
Personally, from newer information that has come forth, especially the ME's report on Floyd, I'd probably have a hard time convicting Chauvin on manslaughter charges.

I looked up Fentanyl poisoning to understand the side effects of the drug. Found this to be quite interesting:

Can using fentanyl poison me?
Yes, it can poison you if you take too much. Early signs of fentanyl poisoning may include:

  • sleepiness
  • trouble breathing (it may sound like snoring)
  • slow, shallow breathing
  • cold, clammy skin
  • unresponsiveness to pain or a person’s voice
The most dangerous side effect of fentanyl is it can cause you to stop breathing, which can lead to death.
The problem with this is that if this is TRUE, and I'm not disputing that, then Floyd was legitimately gasping for breath and struggling to breath, and that means Chauvin SHOULD have been more circumspect and changed his positioning... The man was saying he couldn't breath, regardless of the cause, that should have prompted a response, or at a minimum a change of approach. Still manslaughter in my book.
 

Axxe55

Just a man, and his dogs.
Dec 15, 2019
16,665
113
In the Deep East Texas Pineywoods!
Some are doing that. Others, like me aren't, and your conflation isn't helpful.

The problem with this is that if this is TRUE, and I'm not disputing that, then Floyd was legitimately gasping for breath and struggling to breath, and that means Chauvin SHOULD have been more circumspect and changed his positioning... The man was saying he couldn't breath, regardless of the cause, that should have prompted a response, or at a minimum a change of approach. Still manslaughter in my book.
I do agree with what you're saying. To a point. Hindsight is 20/20, and it's easy to sit back and make judgments after the fact. Chauvin was there, and we weren't.

That was why I mentioned a negligent homicide charge instead. That would have been the only charge I might have convicted on if I were on the jury. But, I doubt that charge was offered as an option, hence the murder charges. This was a very high profile case and they wanted charges that would have shock value if Chauvin was convicted.
 

Rhino

Well-Known
Jan 22, 2009
1,776
113
DFW Area
I do agree with what you're saying. To a point. Hindsight is 20/20, and it's easy to sit back and make judgments after the fact. Chauvin was there, and we weren't.

That was why I mentioned a negligent homicide charge instead. That would have been the only charge I might have convicted on if I were on the jury. But, I doubt that charge was offered as an option, hence the murder charges. This was a very high profile case and they wanted charges that would have shock value if Chauvin was convicted.
The reason this went to court is because it was obvious in more than just hindsight. The bystanders thought it was wrong and vocally urged the officer to show mercy - which combined with Floyd’s own “I can’t breathe” was reasonable suspicion that the man was in trouble. The officer’s smug unwillingness to be moved by the combination of the man’s words and his attitude towards the peons’ criticism of his stance is why there is significant belief, myself included, that he deserved at least the manslaughter charge.
 

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