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Chauvin guilty on all counts

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  • dooladawg

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    "It would also seem to me that there are PLENTY of people that posted in this thread in support of Mr. Floyd" Most of the posts here have been about the flaws in the system.. I haven't read one yet that supports the criminal Mr. Floyd.
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    cycleguy2300

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    That's a different moment than the one I posted, and yes, they can use semantics to distort when they are talking about on the timeline. Go back go my video to 0:53 and look at it carefully. The dude's knee WAS on his neck and your defense of the officer is sickening.
    I'm done arguing with you because I believe you're a fool.
    When someone had massive amounts of a drug cocktail that is well known to stop your heart and your breathing, it's asinine to suggest that isn't a reasonable doubt worthy of a not-guilty verdict.

    He followed department policy and therefore is presumed to have acted in good faith.

    This is a perversion of justice when multiple political leaders make statements encouraging violence if there isn't a guilty verdict.

    He may be a dirt bag and he might not should be a cop, but that doesn't justify a guilty verdict just because you are afraid or riots and don't like him.

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    Rhino

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    Well, that's sort of the anti-racist argument isn't it... if you're not against it then you're for it?

    It would also seem to me that there are PLENTY of people that posted in this thread in support of Mr. Floyd and against what happened to him.

    Additionally, if the internet and PR work to take the comments of a few and apply them to an entire community, then the general public sucks. I don't have to go along with that. I believe INDIVIDUALS are responsible for what they say as well as for their actions. Society's departure from this belief is part of the answer to how we got to where we are.
    I agree 100% that individuals are responsible, but that's not my argument. My argument is that we know how the OTHER side argues, and we have to be more circumspect not to feed them, and we KNOW that's what they are doing, as seen above, so we have no excuse to not be aware. Excusing other forum members for not having situational awareness doesn't help. This isn't a real life gunfight with bullets, but that kind of blindness and lack of SA kills and assuming we are all buddies here, we need to encourage actions and perspective to keep the whole team alive.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    So if you've done something in the past, it's ok to kill you now for something that isn't a capital crime? Awesome.

    This thread is my new exhibit A why the gun community has credibility and PR issues.
    Karma paid him back, not the cop... no one is suggesting anyone should "pay back" past wrongs.

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    Rhino

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    When someone had massive amounts of a drug cocktail that is well known to stop your heart and your breathing, it's asinine to suggest that isn't a reasonable doubt worthy of a not-guilty verdict.

    He followed department policy and therefore is presumed to have acted in good faith.

    This is a perversion of justice when multiple political leaders make statements encouraging violence if there isn't a guilty verdict.

    He may be a dirt bag and he might not should be a cop, but that doesn't justify a guilty verdict just because you are afraid or riots and don't like him.

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    1. There are prescription drugs and medical conditions that can make a person just as confused or aggressive. Not buying that, and the officers weren't omniscient about the drugs.
    2. Then that department policy sucks and needs to go.
    3. Agreed, totally.
    4. Depends on the charge. I believe manslaughter should have stuck at a minimum based on the evidence.
     

    cycleguy2300

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    1. There are prescription drugs and medical conditions that can make a person just as confused or aggressive. Not buying that, and the officers weren't omniscient about the drugs.
    2. Then that department policy sucks and needs to go.
    3. Agreed, totally.
    4. Depends on the charge. I believe manslaughter should have stuck at a minimum based on the evidence.

    The criminal had OD'd on an opiate polydrug cocktail, End of story. It is reasonable to doubt the officers actions directly caused the death. As you said, police cannot know what someone is or isnt on. Thats why policy is there to define what a good faith is, meaning manslaughter wouldnt even be an option (even if the drug overdose wasn't a factor)

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    Rhino

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    The criminal had OD'd on an opiate polydrug cocktail, End of story.
    The jury disagreed, and I would've as well. If he had OD'd, and died later, it is what it is.
    It is reasonable to doubt the officers actions directly caused the death...
    (snip)meaning manslaughter wouldnt even be an option (even if the drug overdose wasn't a factor)
    That ignores the video and the bystanders legitimately questioning what was happening. If the officer had taken his knee off and acted a bit more humanely the opinions of him that have swept the country wouldn't be causing harm.
     

    bbbass

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    "It would also seem to me that there are PLENTY of people that posted in this thread in support of Mr. Floyd" Most of the posts here have been about the flaws in the system.. I haven't read one yet that supports the criminal Mr. Floyd.

    I don't agree with your take that most of the posts have been about flaws in the system. But I'm not gonna go back and read the thread over again.

    Also, I'm wondering if your last sentence is a distinction w/o a difference. That is the reason why I co-joined my statements of "in support" AND "against". I'm willing to give you that whole argument tho. Whatever. I may have to parse my words more carefully with this crowd.
     

    bbbass

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    I agree 100% that individuals are responsible, but that's not my argument. My argument is that we know how the OTHER side argues, and we have to be more circumspect not to feed them, and we KNOW that's what they are doing, as seen above, so we have no excuse to not be aware. Excusing other forum members for not having situational awareness doesn't help. This isn't a real life gunfight with bullets, but that kind of blindness and lack of SA kills and assuming we are all buddies here, we need to encourage actions and perspective to keep the whole team alive.

    The cancel culture is strong.

    Personally, I'm done with it. Phuck em. They have burned it out of me. I'm tired of being painted as a racist, a white supremacist, a gun nut, a conservative (I'm a small l libertarian), or any of a dozen others which don't apply. I'll no longer worry about what the antis think, nor any leftist or "progressive". Neither they, nor I, are going to change our perceptions, so I'll no longer worry about it. When THEY want to start being rational and have rational discussions, and teach/promulgate rational theories of human behavior, then I'll be glad to chat with them. But I won't explain what I believe, until they do. I won't justify my thinking or behavior, unless they do.

    But either way, I'm done with cancel culture. I'm boycotting those that believe or partake in such things.
     

    Bozz10mm

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    Fear of the FSA that were given their marching orders from Auntie Maxine and Uncle Potato prior to jury deliberations.
    The jurors were either on the same mental level as the potato in chief, or they were too terrified of the mob to render any other verdict(s) so they convicted for everything thrown out there.
    Since the jury wasn't sequestered the entire time, I think their verdicts were definitely swayed by the protestors. Chauvin was tried by more than a jury of 12. Basically, mob justice. That's why they threw the book at him. I suspect there would have been reprisals against the jury members if found not guilty or guilty of manslaughter 2 only.

    The judge needs to decide which charge he is guilty of. You can't be guilty of 2nd degree murder if you are guilty of 2nd degree manslaughter. One or the other.
     

    Younggun

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    That's a different moment than the one I posted, and yes, they can use semantics to distort when they are talking about on the timeline. Go back go my video to 0:53 and look at it carefully. The dude's knee WAS on his neck and your defense of the officer is sickening.
    I'm done arguing with you because I believe you're a fool.

    So your single frame is more indicative than my single frame? I can’t find the vid shown in court, seems google doesn’t care much for it. But it’s proof that Chauvin didn’t put his knee on Floyd’s neck for 9 minutes. If he got there at some point while struggling with him and moved back to his shoulder then it’s on Floyd for fighting. And if he was too high to know better that’s on Floyd too.

    I’m ok with you thinking I’m a fool. Given the fact that you have attempted to compare this to 1776, and believe that some fairytale system of 7X repayment and forced labor in the store would end any differently or not I. The end be enforced at gun point...your judgement means little to me.


    Hope Chauvin gets a mistrial or wins his freedom on appeal. Nothing shown by the prosecution comes close to “beyond a reasonable doubt” and our system should be based on “better that 10 guilty go free than one innocent man be jailed”. I agree our system is broken, but you seem to be fine with that so long as it suites your bias.


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    Darkpriest667

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    Since the jury wasn't sequestered the entire time, I think their verdicts were definitely swayed by the protestors. Chauvin was tried by more than a jury of 12. Basically, mob justice. That's why they threw the book at him. I suspect there would have been reprisals against the jury members if found not guilty or guilty of manslaughter 2 only.

    The judge needs to decide which charge he is guilty of. You can't be guilty of 2nd degree murder if you are guilty of 2nd degree manslaughter. One or the other.


    I do agree with this. I don't find it particularly useful to convict someone of contradictory charges.
     

    dooladawg

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    The police officers I know all have a unique sense of humor. And I agree that officer Chauvin is guilty of poor technique.. but not manslaughter, and definitely Not murder.
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    TreyG-20

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    Chauvin should have been more situational aware of the mob of people with cameras. There is no way that it was going to end well in today's America. I'm sure he himself would have done it differently if given the chance. Obviously hindsight is 20/20. Glad I'm not LE and have to make these choices. Nobody wins here.
     

    twain55

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    LEOs get attacked or murdered virtually every day from individuals acting exactly like George Floyd did. Understand?

    And many lives are saved virtually everyday when LEOs are forced to restrain individuals like Officer Chauvin was forced to do.

    Stop being emotionally manipulated by the media.

    Edit: I do try to be accurate in my statements, and I don't have the statistics to backup that LEOs are murdered every day, so I have adjusted my comment to read, "attacked or murdered virtually every day"
     
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    Nick!

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    It sure if any of you listen to Tim Pool, but he offers his opinion on the ruling. Granted, he is no attorney (like Ben Shapiro who also offers an opinion), but he deeply tracks the political and social side of the news.

     
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