CHL Instructor course

[jay524288]

Instead of locking your guns in your cars, why are you not carrying them? Is DPS headquarters also a courthouse or some other prohibited place?

Seems kind of odd to be taking the CHL instructor class while not carrying your weapon.

 

[jay524288]

However, you will not be able to instruct until DPS enters your certificate in the system (could take up to two weeks) and you have ordered and recieved your TR 100s. (could take up to an additonal two to four weeks as you cannot order them until your certificate has been entered into the system.

According this thread (TexasCHLforum.com • View topic - CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill) at texaschlforum.com, the TR-100 forms should go away in September.

 

[DirtyD]

Instead of locking your guns in your cars, why are you not carrying them? Is DPS headquarters also a courthouse or some other prohibited place?

Seems kind of odd to be taking the CHL instructor class while not carrying your weapon.

They ask that you not carry.... simple as that.

According this thread (TexasCHLforum.com • View topic - CHL Improvements in DPS Sunset Bill) at texaschlforum.com, the TR-100 forms should go away in September.

That is the rumor, DPS Legal said they are not sure when, but the TR 100 is going away sometime between now and Oct 1. Still does not change anything for those hoping to come right out of the class and start instructing this year.

 

[jay524288]

They ask that you not carry.... simple as that.

Really? Why is that, do you know?

And when you say they asked, was it a request or was it an order?

Thanks.

 

[DirtyD]

Really? Why is that, do you know?

And when you say they asked, was it a request or was it an order?

Thanks.

Well when the DPS officers say to leave your guns in the car you just do it. Why is it so important to you to carry in the class? If you think about it logically it makes sense, they are sitting in a room full of individuals with an unkown skill level. If this is a concern of yours you can feel free to call them and ask, I however simply said "Roger that..." and left em in the car. I doubt very seriously I am going to have a need for my handguns in class anyway.

 

[jay524288]

Well when the DPS officers say to leave your guns in the car you just do it. Why is it so important to you to carry in the class? If you think about it logically it makes sense, they are sitting in a room full of individuals with an unkown skill level. If this is a concern of yours you can feel free to call them and ask, I however simply said "Roger that..." and left em in the car. I doubt very seriously I am going to have a need for my handguns in class anyway.

So if a DPS officer tells you to give him all the money in your wallet, do you do that? Just because they ask or tell you to do something, it doesn't mean you are required to do so.

By your logic ("I doubt very seriously I am going to have a need for my handguns"), you probably shouldn't carry anywhere. Unless you regularly go to places where you do expect to get shot, that is.

My point was that there is a limited set of circumstances where they can require to you be disarmed. Does the classroom fall into there somewhere? If not, then why are they asking or telling students to disarm? As I understand it, the laws apply to DPS just like everyone else.

In your first post you said they asked and the second you said they told students to disarm. Which one was it?

I'm really not trying to be a pain in the ass here, I'm just trying to understand what is going on.

As for being concerned about around armed people with unknown skill level, that a bogus argument. That's the kind of thing the Handgun Control people say.

1st, most, if not all, of the students have a CHL already, so they must have passed the CHL test.

2nd, anywhere we go, we are potentially around people with firearms and unknown skill level.

3rd, personally, I've seen a higher percentage of police with poor gun handling skills than the populations at large. By that argument, the DPS troopers are the ones that should be disarmed.

 

[DirtyD]

For somebody who is not trying to be a pain in the ass you sure are.... bottom line an officer has the right to disarm a CHL holder if he sees fit until their interaction is done. I really doubt you have any basis to judge me and whether or not I should carry without knowing my background. Judging by your attitude I might question your abilities on a mental level. What is going on is that you are attending a DPS Academy, the class is held on their Academy grounds, and you will abide by the rules set forth, if you cannot, then no CHL Instructor certificate for you.....
As for your other points:
1st, how many CHL Holders have you seen that by all rights should not be carrying based upon competency?
2nd, true, however in this situation EVERYONE is armed.
3rd, I can agree, but in my military experience I knowthat our instructors were pretty much there for a reason, DPS is the same, the individuals conducting the training are truly professionals.

Go to the class or not, your decision, otherwise stop trying to start trouble....
One more thing, do you have a background in the liberal media? Because you did a great job of taking my words and twisting them... what you conveniently left off of the quote above is the tail end. ("I doubt very seriously I am going to have a need for my handguns") ..... in the classroom.......

 

[txinvestigator]

So if a DPS officer tells you to give him all the money in your wallet, do you do that? Just because they ask or tell you to do something, it doesn't mean you are required to do so.

Their class, their rules. If you refuse they will send you packing. Good grief this is not an unreasonable request.

By your logic ("I doubt very seriously I am going to have a need for my handguns"), you probably shouldn't carry anywhere. Unless you regularly go to places where you do expect to get shot, that is.

NO, that is not by his logic. If you don't get this I can't imagine trying to explain it to you.

My point was that there is a limited set of circumstances where they can require to you be disarmed. Does the classroom fall into there somewhere? If not, then why are they asking or telling students to disarm? As I understand it, the laws apply to DPS just like everyone else.

This has nothing to do with law. Again, it is THEIR training class and they don't have to allow you to attend if you refuse to follow the rules. "By your logic" they have no right to make you wear pants and a collared shirt.

3rd, personally, I've seen a higher percentage of police with poor gun handling skills than the populations at large. By that argument, the DPS troopers are the ones that should be disarmed.

That is either disingenuous or you have seen minimal armed people. I see armed people ALL of the time, including cops, military and the "population at large". My long term observation is quite different than yours.

 

[Seabear1500]

Wow...I was enjoying a little PBS and knew I had to respond to this.

First Dirty D and TexInv. I'm with ya.

Jay, I will have to say for starters that I got NO REQUEST IN WRITTING to leave my weapons in my vehichle. However, common sense told me that the DPS Personel might prefer not to be surrounded by armed students...however experienced or inexperienced they may be. I would feel the same way if I was an instructor for CHL renewals. Not that I am against CC heck, I carry EVERY day. I just know that in certain situations it is better to have a controled or captive audience per se.

I'll have to agree with Dirty D and the Investigator in the fact that common sense rules here. Jay, you are new here, as I was when I joined, personaly I think it is best to learn the ropes and "get the feel" before you go stirring the pot. Yes, you are intitled to your opinion, but maybe in the future you should take a step back and look before you leap. There is a great well of wisdom here on this site....don't piss in the well.

Night all, gotta fish tomorrow.

 

[DirtyD]

Oh, just a little more food for thought, with few exceptions everybody in my class (28 Hour) was LEO or Military. Not a single person, including the three Sheriffs (not Deputies, but Sheriffs) had a problem leaving their guns in the car.

 

[jay524288]

Wow, I didn't expect that kind of reaction for trying to ask a simple question.

I didn't mean to upset anybody, and I'm sorry for doing so.

Let me start over, if you don't mind.

I have read the little booklet of laws the DPS sends out when you get your CHL application several times. (It's also available on their website).
Now, according to section 30.06 Trespass by Holder of License to Carry Concealed Handgun it lists the circumstances concealed carry can be prohibited. Among those, it says

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the prop-
erty on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased
by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which
the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under
Section 46.03 or 46.035.

Then under 46.03, it lists places firearms are prohibited:

School
Polling place
Court or offices used by court
Racetrack
Secured area of an airport
Place of execution
​

And 46.035 lists where a CHL holder can't carry legally:

51% places
High school, collegiate, or professional sporting event
Correctional facility
Hospital
Amusement park
Church
​

Nowhere does it say DPS headquarters. Does DPS fall into one of those categories? I can't see where unless it counts as a "school" but that seems like it would be stretching the definition of school.


So, if DPS is forbidding carry, how are they not violating the law? What am I missing?

 

[DirtyD]

Go ahead and go to the class, tell the Staff that you are legally allowed to carry there. Let us know how that works for you. Done here.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

I'm still waiting for my renewal confirmation. Hmmmmm...

 

[JKTex]

Wow, I didn't expect that kind of reaction for trying to ask a simple question.

I didn't mean to upset anybody, and I'm sorry for doing so.

Let me start over, if you don't mind.

I have read the little booklet of laws the DPS sends out when you get your CHL application several times. <blah blah, more ridiculous blah blah, no one ever said anything about legality, blah blah I'm making myself look silly, blah blah....

So, if DPS is forbidding carry, how are they not violating the law? What am I missing?

You're missing the fact that what you're saying is nuts, and irrelevant and really <self censored so as not to me accused of being a meanie> . No one was forbidden to do anything. The participants were asked to leave their guns in their car and no one had a problem with that. End of story. If someone had a concern and felt they needed their handgun on their side, they would have taken it up with the one(s) who asked they leave them in the car and they would have either said no problem or no, or see ya later or please pass the butter beans. Hey, you never know.

If you want to live your life by doing only what the law allows or disallows with no consideration of common sense, mutual respect, free thinking...god help you.

 

[jay524288]

No one was forbidden to do anything. The participants were asked to leave their guns ...

Thank you. That's all I asked. From post #24:

Originally Posted by DirtyD

They ask that you not carry.... simple as that.

​

Really? Why is that, do you know?

And when you say they asked, was it a request or was it an order?

I don't think there was ever a reason for anyone to get so bent out of shape for my question. Not once have I called anyone names, nor have I intentionally insulted anyone. I may attack someone's argument, but I don't attack the person.

I asked a simple question and got a response of "When a DPS officer tells you to to do something you do it." That may be true for some people, but it's certainly not true for all. And it definitely didn't address anything I asked.

 

[Seabear1500]

I don't think anyone was "attacking" you. We are just thinking with a little more common sense I guess.

First, if a DPS instructor feels better asking you to leave your weapons in your vehicle, and he is in charge , and he/she controls your grade/future as an instructor, I would think it's just easier to comply.

Second, he has WAY more friends there with weapons.

Third....third???? is there really a need for a third?

As to my original post, I never dreamed I would carry to class, I have not seen an order or been asked at this point to leave my weapons outside. I just figured that would be the case. Jut common sense to me.

In addition, I am taking 4 firearms, 2 wheel guns and two SA's I don't really think trying to conceal four and stay seated for 8 hours would be very fun.

 

[txinvestigator]

Wow, I didn't expect that kind of reaction for trying to ask a simple question.

I didn't mean to upset anybody, and I'm sorry for doing so.

Nowhere does it say DPS headquarters. Does DPS fall into one of those categories? I can't see where unless it counts as a "school" but that seems like it would be stretching the definition of school.


So, if DPS is forbidding carry, how are they not violating the law? What am I missing?

What you are missing is this; Those penal code sections are violations for the CHL holder. DPS does not violate any law by not letting you carry into class. What law do you imagine that would violate?

As an instructor, I prefer no handguns in the classroom unless I am teaching a SHOOTING course, and we are running a hot range. Even at that, I require all firearms unloaded untill we officially go hot on the range.

You need to stop and think about this for just a moment. It makes sense.

 

[Hoji]

I do not even allow live ammunition in a class I am teaching. The reason being is as the instructor I have a responsibility for ALL of my students safety while they are under my control. no live ammo, no NDs.

This goes for me as well. I will carry my gun but all mags are in the other room.

 

[Texas1911]

It has nothing to do with whether or not you can legally do it, and everything to do with respecting the instructor's guidelines.

 

[DoubleActionCHL]

Nobody brings a gun in my classroom but me. I MIGHT allow them to have them for the few minutes before the shooting proficiency test, but they're immediate stowed in the cars after the test. I only handle a real gun when it's necessary for demonstration purposes. The rest of time, I'm using the mock gun.