My CHL/gun seizure and dumb college kid story
Very logical question. In fact, when I was in college I was stopped for speeding (imagine that). Went to get my insurance paper out of the glove box. Didn't even think about the fact that my gun (unloaded) was right under the papers. I quickly complied with the "insurance and license" request. As I darted my hand in the box and sat back up, the cop already had his gun in my back and asked if that was a gun in my glove box. Uh, oh ya. That? Got taken in that evening. Had to hire a lawyer and go to court. The truth is that I just forgot it was in there. This is pre-CHL days, by the way...1995ish. And there was no ammo or even mags in the car. Just a gun and dumb college kid. So, I told the judge that I went to the pawn shop to try to sell it but they were closed (9:30pm). In that day, you could only transport a gun if it was to a sporting event, to sell or buy, or if you were crossing three county lines. Funny enough, I think it was the following year they passed all the CHL stuff so what I was doing would have been legal with the CHL. Anyway, they said "Why would you think they'd be open so late?" I said, "I've never been to a pawn shop. I thought maybe they were like those stores that stay open late for quick cash like a convenience store." Judge gave me the "ya right" look. Cost me about $950 in court fines, 30 days probation fees (deferred adjudication for class A misdemeanor 'unlawful carrying of a weapon'), and lawyer fees. Suckola for a poor college kid. But if the cop was a little jumpier, I could have been killed because of poor judgment and I'm sure he would have been exonerated.
As for my CHL traffic stop, I was pulled over for expired inspection sticker when I was attempting to sell an old farm truck. When I handed my licenses to the officer, the issue was no longer my traffic infraction but my possession of a weapon. The officer asked (calmly),
“Do you have your weapon with you?’
“Yes.”
“Where is it?”
“On my hip where I always carry it.”
“Would you please step out of the car?”
At this point the officer had me place my hands on the car while he talked me through disarming me. He then took the weapon (Glock 19) to his car, unloaded it, and ran the serial numbers. After the encounter, he placed the frame on the dash and the magazine on the rear bumper. He said he was giving me a verbal warning regarding the inspection (after I showed him the sales offer from Texas Direct Auto to help validate my claim) and asked that I wait until he left to reload the weapon. He went to the far end of the parking lot apparently leaving. I reloaded the weapon and began to leave toward the front entrance. I assume he found a dead end so he turned around to exit the main entrance. As I pulled up to leave also, he backed up as if to let me go first.
He was impeccably polite and professional, but it's still a shame that he violated my constitutional rights. By taking the weapon from me, he effectively searched me and seized my property without probable cause. Lawful carrying of a weapon is not probable cause for removing the property. There is case law to this effect. Furthermore, by having my CHL and having a requirement to present it to the officer, it’s also a violation of the Equal Protection Clause to the extent that it requires that I present additional identification when most people are not required to for the same act. Carrying a concealed weapon in the vehicle (for most people) is legal without license. Had I not had a CHL, I could have had the same weapon carried the same way but would not have been asked to step out of the vehicle, would not have been searched, my property would not have been seized, and the serial numbers would not have been ran. I may or may not have received a $10 ticket.
In fact, I'd think that cops would rather have a CHL stop because at least they KNOW the person is a) probably carrying a weapon, b) probably a good guy, and c) not a felon. It should be the unknown they fear. If they approach Joe Blow, they don't know if he's armed. They don't know if he's passed a background check. They don't know if he's a felon. They should think of the CHL like the TSA program where you can do a background check and then you get the express lane through security checkpoints. The CHL should be the "security check completed" express card, not the "go on high alert because this might be the next Adam Lanza or 'Dr. Chingy-Money cop-killa'".
Sorry to contribute to the off-track trend of this thread, but I am confused as to why some of you would carry your weapon and your insurance card in the same compartment in your vehicle. You know that if you are stopped, you'll need to present your insurance card, so why on earth would you make it more difficult/dangerous on yourself, and the officer, by doing that? Not to be too insulting, but that shows a lack of common sense, in my opinion.
Very logical question. In fact, when I was in college I was stopped for speeding (imagine that). Went to get my insurance paper out of the glove box. Didn't even think about the fact that my gun (unloaded) was right under the papers. I quickly complied with the "insurance and license" request. As I darted my hand in the box and sat back up, the cop already had his gun in my back and asked if that was a gun in my glove box. Uh, oh ya. That? Got taken in that evening. Had to hire a lawyer and go to court. The truth is that I just forgot it was in there. This is pre-CHL days, by the way...1995ish. And there was no ammo or even mags in the car. Just a gun and dumb college kid. So, I told the judge that I went to the pawn shop to try to sell it but they were closed (9:30pm). In that day, you could only transport a gun if it was to a sporting event, to sell or buy, or if you were crossing three county lines. Funny enough, I think it was the following year they passed all the CHL stuff so what I was doing would have been legal with the CHL. Anyway, they said "Why would you think they'd be open so late?" I said, "I've never been to a pawn shop. I thought maybe they were like those stores that stay open late for quick cash like a convenience store." Judge gave me the "ya right" look. Cost me about $950 in court fines, 30 days probation fees (deferred adjudication for class A misdemeanor 'unlawful carrying of a weapon'), and lawyer fees. Suckola for a poor college kid. But if the cop was a little jumpier, I could have been killed because of poor judgment and I'm sure he would have been exonerated.
As for my CHL traffic stop, I was pulled over for expired inspection sticker when I was attempting to sell an old farm truck. When I handed my licenses to the officer, the issue was no longer my traffic infraction but my possession of a weapon. The officer asked (calmly),
“Do you have your weapon with you?’
“Yes.”
“Where is it?”
“On my hip where I always carry it.”
“Would you please step out of the car?”
At this point the officer had me place my hands on the car while he talked me through disarming me. He then took the weapon (Glock 19) to his car, unloaded it, and ran the serial numbers. After the encounter, he placed the frame on the dash and the magazine on the rear bumper. He said he was giving me a verbal warning regarding the inspection (after I showed him the sales offer from Texas Direct Auto to help validate my claim) and asked that I wait until he left to reload the weapon. He went to the far end of the parking lot apparently leaving. I reloaded the weapon and began to leave toward the front entrance. I assume he found a dead end so he turned around to exit the main entrance. As I pulled up to leave also, he backed up as if to let me go first.
He was impeccably polite and professional, but it's still a shame that he violated my constitutional rights. By taking the weapon from me, he effectively searched me and seized my property without probable cause. Lawful carrying of a weapon is not probable cause for removing the property. There is case law to this effect. Furthermore, by having my CHL and having a requirement to present it to the officer, it’s also a violation of the Equal Protection Clause to the extent that it requires that I present additional identification when most people are not required to for the same act. Carrying a concealed weapon in the vehicle (for most people) is legal without license. Had I not had a CHL, I could have had the same weapon carried the same way but would not have been asked to step out of the vehicle, would not have been searched, my property would not have been seized, and the serial numbers would not have been ran. I may or may not have received a $10 ticket.
In fact, I'd think that cops would rather have a CHL stop because at least they KNOW the person is a) probably carrying a weapon, b) probably a good guy, and c) not a felon. It should be the unknown they fear. If they approach Joe Blow, they don't know if he's armed. They don't know if he's passed a background check. They don't know if he's a felon. They should think of the CHL like the TSA program where you can do a background check and then you get the express lane through security checkpoints. The CHL should be the "security check completed" express card, not the "go on high alert because this might be the next Adam Lanza or 'Dr. Chingy-Money cop-killa'".