Common Decency

[oldag]

At 3, that's appropriate.

Younger than that, no. A 2-year-old can be expected to act out and there's not a lot that can be done about it. Physical punishment isn't generally effective because the whole cause-and-effect thing isn't a firm concept in their minds yet. Yet I've seen people beat a 2-year-old to try to keep them quiet. It didn't work and I wouldn't expect it to. A good parent simply doesn't bring a 2-year-old to a lengthy, formal, sit-there-and-be-quiet event.

The OP specified "under 5" and that's a range where the developmental milestones come fast and hard. A 5-year-old should be able to sit quietly for a while but I wouldn't expect them to endure, say, a full hour+ of a church service without getting restless. That's why my last church had a kids church, internally. The little ones stayed in the main sanctuary for the initial greeting, song, and prayer. Then they all left to go to a different room where they had their own service that was more, shall we say, relaxed.

Personally, I'd say anyone with 5-year-olds who brings them to something formal where they must keep quiet for a long period is either:

• an excellent parent who has taught their children how to behave in public, or
• a parent who doesn't care.

In the former case, when the kid acts up the excellent parent will remove the problem from the venue. In the latter case, that won't happen and I believe it's the parent who lacks discipline, not the kid.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on that. And I disagree pretty strongly. And there is a huge difference in a "beating" and a swat on the bottom. And I can tell you from personal experience that a two year old can be taught to behave. And my kids went to events at two years old and behaved. If an event is going to go on much longer than an hour or two, sure, take them out and give them a break.

And those kids turned out to be wonderful young adults. No emotional scars. Well above their peers.

 

[Brains]

I've got a full-on nuclear reactor of a 4 year old boy. I wouldn't expect him to sit still either, so yea. We'd not bring him to an event like that. It'd be a bad time for everyone, including him. You can pretty much get 45 minutes to an hour, but that's it. Toddlers gotta move, it's as simple as that.

 

[benenglish]

And I can tell you from personal experience that a two year old can be taught to behave.

"Can"? Yeah, despite what I said earlier, I agree. According to my parents, both my sister and I were able to behave in public at 2. However, in my experience this was never common and is becoming rarer. However, I've also seen the developmental milestone charts that say the "Terrible Twos" are usually gone by 24 months, so maybe I'm completely off base. I'll defer to your greater first-hand experience in the matter.

there is a huge difference in a "beating" and a swat on the bottom.

Absolutely agreed. I just have a terrible memory burned into my brain from when I was about 9 or so. I saw a mom repeatedly slapping the shit out of a two-year-old who was crying which just made the kid cry more. Every blow was so hard it knocked the kid over. It's a vivid memory and the recollection sometimes crops up and influences the way I phrase things.

 

[deemus]

My old man practiced preemptive discipline - stopped the car a couple of blocks from the destination and gave me a couple of swats on the butt with his hand as a preview of what was to come if I didn't behave.

I'll see your preemptive discipline and see you a drill sergeant dad. My parents got so many compliments about what a great kid they had. I just continued to stand at attention.

 

[toddnjoyce]

This ceremony was about 2 hours long, and it was well advertised it would be that long.

I honestly believe the parents were well intentioned. Parents were well dressed, kids were well dressed.

I think between the facility, the size of the audience, the formality of the ceremony all just overwhelmed the kids. And kids do what they do when they don’t know how else to express themselves.

I do fault the parents. They should have known better.

There were many formal ceremonies that we either found a sitter for or did not attend when our kids were that age. Ours are 15 months apart, so there was about a good six years we had to deal with that.

I just wish more folks were considerate like that.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I'm just glad I don't have to fly that often now, you can't ask them to leave.

I’ve considered if an all 21 & up airline could be successful. Focused solely on business travelers and DINK passengers.

 

[oldag]

Absolutely agreed. I just have a terrible memory burned into my brain from when I was about 9 or so. I saw a mom repeatedly slapping the shit out of a two-year-old who was crying which just made the kid cry more. Every blow was so hard it knocked the kid over. It's a vivid memory and the recollection sometimes crops up and influences the way I phrase things.

That is as wrong as wrong can be. We are in solid agreement there.

 

[Brains]

I do get a chuckle when people speak in absolutes about parenting

I have three kids, and they could not be more different. Each requires different things from us, each one reacts differently to the same situations, etc. No two kids are the same, even friends who are identical twins have interestingly different personalities (extending even to their political views). My little girl could have done that event easily at 2, 3, 4, etc. My oldest too. The youngest? Not a chance.

 

[jrbfishn]

I was smart enough to know that the only time my boys were still and quiet, they were sick.
And yes, children do eventually outgrow the terrible 2s. Problem is, it's abut the same time they become teenagers.

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[MTA]

I do get a chuckle when people speak in absolutes about parenting

I have three kids, and they could not be more different. Each requires different things from us, each one reacts differently to the same situations, etc. No two kids are the same, even friends who are identical twins have interestingly different personalities (extending even to their political views). My little girl could have done that event easily at 2, 3, 4, etc. My oldest too. The youngest? Not a chance.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes


I hate star wars but that made me think of that

 

[toddnjoyce]

I do get a chuckle when people speak in absolutes about anything

Me, too

 

[TxStetson]

I do get a chuckle when people speak in absolutes about parenting

I have three kids, and they could not be more different. Each requires different things from us, each one reacts differently to the same situations, etc. No two kids are the same, even friends who are identical twins have interestingly different personalities (extending even to their political views). My little girl could have done that event easily at 2, 3, 4, etc. My oldest too. The youngest? Not a chance.

I also have 3 kids, all of them around 2 years apart. Each of them with completely different behaviors and attitudes.

 

[easy rider]

I found that the 2's weren't near as bad as when they got older. For my daughter it was 13, for my son it was about 16.

 

[oldag]

I do get a chuckle when people speak in absolutes about parenting

I have three kids, and they could not be more different. Each requires different things from us, each one reacts differently to the same situations, etc. No two kids are the same, even friends who are identical twins have interestingly different personalities (extending even to their political views). My little girl could have done that event easily at 2, 3, 4, etc. My oldest too. The youngest? Not a chance.

The absolute is discipline. The variables are the type and the degree of discipline.

The one I had to be toughest on was the first to tell me thanks for how I raised them.

 

[benenglish]

Each of them with completely different behaviors and attitudes.

Truth.

Some of you have met my sister. People who know us both well often express shock that we were reared in the same household because we are so completely different in nearly every way.

 

[Southpaw]

Truth.

Some of you have met my sister. People who know us both well often express shock that we were reared in the same household because we are so completely different in nearly every way.

I can believe it. My wife and her sister are only a few years apart and completely different.

 

[Chirpy]

I'm now to the point where I'll be at a restaurant with the 14 and 15 year old, and some toddler will be out of control, running between tables and what not and they will look at us and say "I'm so glad you didn't let us do that"!

The threat of "Do you want to go outside" was all it took to get things under control. My oldest, the stubborn daughter, almost went outside with me once, in the "airlock" doors before we got outside where I asked her if she could calm down or did we have to go all the way outside? Neither ever went completely outside, but I'm sure whatever they imagined was worse than what would have happened.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Truth.

Some of you have met my sister. People who know us both well often express shock that we were reared in the same household because we are so completely different in nearly every way.

My brother and I are nothing alike.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Not sure what was going on at the San Antonio COSTCO but it was out of control Sunday. Place was full, could barely move with your cart, literally had tie ups that took people to back up with their cart to unravel the mess. Must have been family day. Families with 4, 5 and more kids running EVERY which direction, screaming. Insane! It appeared these folks were not normal COSTCO shoppers, been shopping at that store for 8 years once a week or more and never seen anything like this. Worse the din of foreign languages spoken was almost surreal. This was like Black Friday only with kids and the people were buying stuff by the flat carts, workers having a hard time keeping some shelves stocked.

Now mix that with the 'saunters', this is old people just meandering thru the store, many of them using the cart for a Zimmer frame. I got behind one old man that had it not been for the cart he would have been in a wheelchair, he was leaned over and resting on the cart while pushing with his feet, struggling to pick up a wedge of cheese. He was there when I arrived and still shuffling when I left.

It was like Wal Martians and the sick, lame and lazy with Costco cards...

 

[oldag]

Now mix that with the 'saunters', this is old people just meandering thru the store, many of them using the cart for a Zimmer frame. I got behind one old man that had it not been for the cart he would have been in a wheelchair, he was leaned over and resting on the cart while pushing with his feet, struggling to pick up a wedge of cheese. He was there when I arrived and still shuffling when I left.

It was like Wal Martians and the sick, lame and lazy with Costco cards...

You will probably be in their shoes one day.