Electric Vehicles here to stay, for good or bad?

[Kar98]

Actually the Model 3 I drove yesterday with the long range battery has a factory 8 year or 120,000 mile warranty on the battery.

It may be that cars become like phones.
Use-up and toss.

Yeah, THAT'S great for the environment!

 

[HKShooter65]

I will be surprised, knowing the state of battery technology, if that 8 years is truly achieved.

Final answer:

I have 2 buddies that bought Model S versions in 2012. Early adopters.
7 years.
Both are going strong. They each have about 80% of their original capacity.
And the batteries have been improved.

Ya. Ya. I'm becoming an armchair fanboy.
Unlikely that I'll buy one any time soon.

 

[avvidclif]

As a side note for the gearheads I went thru Don Garlits Museum of Drag Racing yesterday. Very interesting and nice displays. The note is he is working on an electric powered dragster. It has already been over 200mph and he's shooting for 300. Going out this weekend for some testing. Looks just like a regular rear engine TF dragster except no motor, just a smooth body behind the driver

 

[Army 1911]

Yeah but he has to recharge every quarter mile.

 

[Davetex]

The battery life isn't measured by years, it needs to be measured in cycles. Anything else is guessing.

 

[pronstar]

You still have a battery to replace in 5 years & it won't be cheap. I know several people that bought a Prius. When the battery died it was 5k for the battery + labor if your not a do it yourself type.

Refurbished Prius battery packs with warranties are $350-$700. Installation is easy, or a couple hundred bucks to pay someone to do it.

But packs don’t fail all at once, individual cells do.
And can be replaced for $50 in parts, either by yourself (plenty of YouTube vids) or just call a company to do it, it’s actually pretty cheap.

Wife had a Prius and lived it.
Never gave us a lick of trouble in 160k miles. She’d still be driving it if it wasn’t totaled in a big hail storm.

There’s a reason why cab fleets love Prius’s.
They don’t care about fuel cost - drivers pay fuel.
Fleet owners pay for maintenance, and the cars are unbelievably reliable, even by Toyota standards.

Im pretty agnostic to car tech, though.
If a particular tech works for someone, great.
If not, then choose something else



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Renegade]

You still have a battery to replace in 5 years & it won't be cheap. I know several people that bought a Prius. When the battery died it was 5k for the battery + labor if your not a do it yourself type.

The Prius battery system was a POS compared to today's systems.

Electric cars are the future, and will be better than gas/diesel in every respect (performance, acceleration, torque, hp, etc). except 1 and it is a big one - inability to rapidly re-charge. Thus you have to plan your travel a day in advance, and if it takes more than the range of your vehicle to get there, expect a multi day trip.

Remember Sammy Hagar? "It took me 16 hours to get to LA!" Well, now it will be 4 days!!

Maybe someday they will get to Propane bottle quick exchanges for batteries, but I do not see that anytime soon.

 

[Kar98]

Which is why hydrogen burning cars make tons more sense. Split water into H2 and O2. Store, use and refill the H2. Burn in your car, emit nothing but steam. And produce the electricity needed to split the water where you can really go to town with emission controls.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a22688627/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars/

 

[oldag]

Not really.
The average American drives 13,400 miles a year.
That's around 1,100 miles a month.

In practicality that means do all your driving as you now do and plug it in at home ever 4-6 days overnight.
Each plug-in would cost about $6 here. I pump about $250 of gasoline monthly.
I know a lot of Tesla owners doing that today.

Admittedly an all electric car is a terrible choice if I want to drive to Amarillo tomorrow.

Tesla's new yet-to-arrive roadster is enormously powerful and will go 620 miles.
Mess with that math and imagine that, in 2022, Toyota produces an American-made all electric Civic that is faster than the current Civic and will go 1,200 miles on a $10 once-a-month.
That can and will be transformative.

Yes, really.

I was not referring to the average American. I was referring to me. You know nothing about my average driving habits. A four hour drive is nothing. Thirteen to sixteen hours is not uncommon.

And you are underestimating the cost of electricity to charge the batteries.

I will believe 620 miles of my style driving when I see it.

 

[HKShooter65]

The battery life isn't measured by years, it needs to be measured in cycles. Anything else is guessing.

True.
1,000 charge cycles could get you a quarter million miles! Admittedly the warranty only will carry you to 1/8th million miles!!!

The buddy with the 7 year old S has 181,000 miles and 84% capacity of new after 1,070 charge cycles. He just texted me with those numbers.


If you charge it every day it's still in full warranty at the 2,900 charge cycle point.

Check this article:
It's saying that based on 2/3+ decade real-world experience the battery is good for 500,000 miles!
https://cleantechnica.com/2018/04/1...after-160000-miles-may-last-for-500000-miles/

 

[DoubleDuty]

As a side note for the gearheads I went thru Don Garlits Museum of Drag Racing yesterday. Very interesting and nice displays. The note is he is working on an electric powered dragster. It has already been over 200mph and he's shooting for 300. Going out this weekend for some testing. Looks just like a regular rear engine TF dragster except no motor, just a smooth body behind the driver

It won't explode either

 

[DoubleDuty]

Yes, really.

I was not referring to the average American. I was referring to me. You know nothing about my average driving habits. A four hour drive is nothing. Thirteen to sixteen hours is not uncommon.

And you are underestimating the cost of electricity to charge the batteries.

I will believe 620 miles of my style driving when I see it.

Plus the state is going to have to charge you by the mile to pay for the roads.

 

[MTA]

Just hope the power doesn't go out when you have to get away from a tornado or some other disaster

 

[oldag]

It won't explode either

But those lithium batteries burn like a son of a gun, though...

 

[HKShooter65]

...better than gas/diesel in every respect (performance, acceleration, torque, hp, etc). except 1 and it is a big one - inability to rapidly re-char

At an entry level of $75,000 the Porche 2020 Taycan will still be an expensive toy.
https://www.caranddriver.com/porsche/taycan

But.....
They are supposedly going to get 60 miles on 4 minute charge.
250 miles on a 15 minute charge.
It's an 800 volt DC system far more time efficient than Tesla's system and being placed presently.

I just cannot imagine that Toyota and Nissan and Honda are not all over this concept behind closed doors.

The average Porsche buyer probably has a big prostate and that 4 minutes in the electric filling station will be well spent in the bathroom anyway.

 

[Big Green]

I’ve had one ride in a Model S, very nice and fast car. Since then that owner has had two Model 5s and a 3.

I’m a fan, minus they are cars, and the 5 is not a SUV to me. My daily commute is about 22 miles each way to work, I’ve thought about one. Would also work for the wife if there was one big enough for four kids.

Audi now has the E Tron, which is a SUV but not a third row.

I’ve said for years Toyota needs to build a 2wd Tacoma that is battery powered. I think that truck would sell very well considering what most people use trucks for.

 

[Renegade]

.
It's an 800 volt DC system far more time efficient than Tesla's system and being placed presently.

That is the next problem. Multiple incompatible systems. We are still a long way off from when a electric car is a true touring vehicle.

 

[benenglish]

This is a topic of interest to me and I could write one of my long posts but I won't bore y'all.

Two points worth mentioning haven't been made.

1. For most drivers, an EV is already enough. If you live and work in or close to a city, you actually don't need much range. Something like the Honda E, range-restricted and expensive though it is, is wonderful as a city car. Most drivers don't need more than that. Accepting that fact and getting used to occasionally renting a gas vehicle for long trips would meet the needs of the overwhelming majority of drivers.

2. Perhaps the best part of EV market penetration is the downward pressure it puts on gas prices. For decades, various pundits have forecast sky-high gas prices that would force people into EVs. As it turns out, political and economic pressures have kept gas prices within reason. Now, though, with the upswing in EV adoption, a whole bunch of new cars don't need gas. When EVs hit the tipping point of mass market acceptance, not only will their purchase prices start to drop but gas stations will suddenly find they have fewer customers for their product. The downward pressure on gas prices will only increase in the long run. There will probably be some pain around the crossover but, long term, super-high-performance, gas-sucking cars will continue to be viable alternatives because EVs will help keep gas cheap. I like that. I like that it will probably always be possible to buy a super long range GT car or keep your classic car running, partly because EVs will help keep gas affordable.

 

[innominate]

I rarely drive my car anymore. I commute on either a scooter or motorcycle. I've looked into electric motorcycles back in 2012. I looked again this year. The problems are still the same. Cost, range and charge time. There was talk back then about cost going down and battery tech improving. There has not been significant improvement up to now. There are more players now so maybe those changes will finally come.

When I do drive it is usually a 500+ mile trip back to Nola. It could be done in a tesla but it would add time to the already 7 1/2 hour trip. I don't like stopping the 1 time for gas so I know I wouldn't like multiple stops to charge the battery.

 

[Sam7sf]

I’m gonna keep my Colorado diesel going as long as I can and be the guy on the road where a 10 second zero to sixty pisses people off!