Electric Vehicles here to stay, for good or bad?

[Havok1]

Just doing the math, I come up with 750k miles.

3,000 charges x 250 miles, am I incorrect in my thinking?

He said down to 80%, which would give 20% of the battery range(50 miles) 3000 times. At least that’s the way I understood it. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I understood his post to mean.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

He said down to 80%, which would give 20% of the battery range(50 miles) 3000 times. At least that’s the way I understood it. Maybe I’m wrong, but that’s what I understood his post to mean.

Hopefully he'll chime in.

I thought after 3k cycles, it would still hold an 80% charge, who knows.

Still, the years it would take a typical driver to cover 750k miles, a battery wouldn't last.

 

[Tnhawk]

If the EV was a good idea, biden and the government wouldn't need to pass laws mandating our choices in purchasing them. When is the last time the government forced you to do anything beneficial to you? draft? taxes? ATF rules? covid shots?

 

[Rhineland]

Call me when EV's don't come with a "Park Outside" warning.... At that point I'll remind you that the cost of an EV doesn't justify it's alleged energy savings and don't get me started on the "green" BS.... Texas is among the highest percentage of renewables on the grid and we're only at about 20%. I'm cool with hybrids (although no idea about repair costs) or anyone that wants to own a plug-in only EV for the zoom factor, but don't BS me about being green.

Isn't that a single model from a single manufacturer - Chevrolet Bolt? There's over 170,000 combustion engine vehicle fires per a year in the US. Statistically combustion engine vehicles are more likely to catch fire. To me hybrids are a worse of both worlds, maximum complexity, all the maintenance of ICE. Just before you think otherwise, I couldn't care less about 'being green'. It's entirely about self sufficiency, low running costs, and the brutal torque and instant response of an EV.
The long term of EV's is most of the raw materials will come from old EV's. The packs are highly recyclable and getting more so by the day. Part of the problem is there isn't enough old packs yet for the economies of scale to really kick in. That creates a closed loop resource system i.e. mine once cry once. ICE requires on going oil throughout the life of the vehicle.

Also every grid is different, heavy nuclear and hydro grids are a pretty good solution. Also the idea that somehow burning the oil in a car at 20-25% thermal efficiency is less polluting than burning the same fuel in a power plant at 50-60% thermal efficiency then using that to charge a battery and run highly efficient electric motors still is more efficient.

 

[Rhineland]

lol. Locations checks out.

When the SHTF and you don’t have electricity, your best hope for charging your car will be a gas generator.

In bad weather situations is when solar and wind are the least effective. All of our power grid issues are the result of solar and wind failures.

As far as the low cost, the cost is really just shifted. Between the tax payers sharing the burden of your vehicle, electric vehicles cost much more than gas equivalents, and even if you don’t have to pay for oil changes along the way, you go through more tires and the cost of a new battery will dwarf the cost of most people’s ICE vehicle costs over the same time period.

The success of companies like Rivian hinge on EV mandates.

I’m not really against EV’s, but for most uses, they are not better. I am however against EV mandates.

When the SHTF how long is your gas generator going to last? Or do you plan on having a huge underground tank?

FYI I grew up in Northern Europe at a latitude further north than Moscow or the Aleutian Islands. The 4kW solar system on our house still managed to generate 3MWh across the entire year. Sure in bad weather the energy produces drops but it's usually not zero. Where I lived was mostly overcast, and extremely dark during the winter.

I do not support EV subsidies and in fact the Rivian I have on order doesn't qualify due to the high cost. I'm against all government subsidies, including the massive subsidies given to oil and gas companies. If you want to dive into that argument we can but it's not pretty.

I will likely never change the battery in the vehicle, I don't know why this keeps coming up. It's a rare occurrence for most. Sure I'll go through tires more but in a previous post I made the point that EV specific tires have high levels of silica which means they are harder wearing at the cost of lower friction co-efficient which is balanced out by the greater normal force.

Buy what you want. I'll be owning my V8 Mustang along with my Rivian. There's a reason EV's are taking over everywhere outside of the US in other developed countries.

 

[Rhineland]

If the EV was a good idea, biden and the government wouldn't need to pass laws mandating our choices in purchasing them. When is the last time the government forced you to do anything beneficial to you? draft? taxes? ATF rules? covid shots?

At no point did I say I supported mandates or subsidies. In fact I'm quite against them.

 

[Tnhawk]

Buy what you want. I'll be owning my V8 Mustang along with my Rivian. There's a reason EV's are taking over everywhere outside of the US in other developed countries.

There's also many reasons the majority of Americans don't want an EV.

 

[OutlawStar]

If the EV was a good idea, biden and the government wouldn't need to pass laws mandating our choices in purchasing them. When is the last time the government forced you to do anything beneficial to you? draft? taxes? ATF rules? covid shots?

Do seatbelts, helmets, crash safety standards, vehicle insurance, compulsory school, USDA/food safety inspections, (most) building codes, general traffic laws, and consumer protection laws count?

 

[no2gates]

When the SHTF how long is your gas generator going to last? Or do you plan on having a huge underground tank?

FYI I grew up in Northern Europe at a latitude further north than Moscow or the Aleutian Islands. The 4kW solar system on our house still managed to generate 3MWh across the entire year. Sure in bad weather the energy produces drops but it's usually not zero. Where I lived was mostly overcast, and extremely dark during the winter.

I've got a system that works great when it's sunny, I produce over double what I use on a lot of days and send the excess to the grid, but on a cloudy day like yesterday, I imported from the grid almost 50% of my usage.
Solar is great on sunny days, but not so good on cloudy ones. There are days when I produce around 100KWh, but on a very cloudy day, that number will drop to almost 15, which is less than half of what I need.

 

[Rhineland]

Just doing the math, I come up with 750k miles.

3,000 charges x 250 miles, am I incorrect in my thinking?

Close, it doesn't drop 20% then stay there. It starts at 100% and tails off to approximately 80% over the course of those 3,000 cycles. You have to integrate miles between the bounds of 0 and 3000 = 300(1-(0.2x/3000)dx. So around 810k. But after that it can be used for stationary storage for a long time, basically until it no longer holds a useful charge or until the internal resistance gets too high.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Average driver drives less than 200,000 miles in 10 years, which would be way below the 3000 cycles.

Would a 10 year old battery still hold a better than 80% charge?

Seems like age might come into play before cycles do.
Which could necessitate a battery change.

 

[Brains]

I think it's funny that you repeatedly mention owning a V8 Mustang as a defense to owning the Rivian.

 

[no2gates]

Average driver drives less than 200,000 miles in 10 years, which would be way below the 3000 cycles.

Would a 10 year old battery still hold a better than 80% charge?

Seems like age might come into play before cycles do.
Which could necessitate a battery change.

In the cycle/milage calculation, most people don't wait until the battery is very low before recharging, so the actual number of cycles may be a bit more.

 

[baboon]

I just read where Nissan has cam out with a motor that makes electric cars a moot point. A friend of min says Toyota has another one.

Nissan's new 1.5L three cylinder engine producing 400 hp

Yes, a 1.5 liter turbo engine weighing only 88 lbs (40 kg) that produces 400 hp, it's called the DIG-T R. So forget about electric motors th...

moderncartalk.blogspot.com

 

[OutlawStar]

I just read where Nissan has cam out with a motor that makes electric cars a moot point. A friend of min says Toyota has another one.

Nissan's new 1.5L three cylinder engine producing 400 hp

Yes, a 1.5 liter turbo engine weighing only 88 lbs (40 kg) that produces 400 hp, it's called the DIG-T R. So forget about electric motors th...

moderncartalk.blogspot.com

A friend of mine also said they've got a car that runs on water!

 

[baboon]

A friend of mine also said they've got a car that runs on water!

IIRC that the Toyota engine.

 

[Havok1]

When the SHTF how long is your gas generator going to last? Or do you plan on having a huge underground tank?

FYI I grew up in Northern Europe at a latitude further north than Moscow or the Aleutian Islands. The 4kW solar system on our house still managed to generate 3MWh across the entire year. Sure in bad weather the energy produces drops but it's usually not zero. Where I lived was mostly overcast, and extremely dark during the winter.

I do not support EV subsidies and in fact the Rivian I have on order doesn't qualify due to the high cost. I'm against all government subsidies, including the massive subsidies given to oil and gas companies. If you want to dive into that argument we can but it's not pretty.

I will likely never change the battery in the vehicle, I don't know why this keeps coming up. It's a rare occurrence for most. Sure I'll go through tires more but in a previous post I made the point that EV specific tires have high levels of silica which means they are harder wearing at the cost of lower friction co-efficient which is balanced out by the greater normal force.

Buy what you want. I'll be owning my V8 Mustang along with my Rivian. There's a reason EV's are taking over everywhere outside of the US in other developed countries.

My generator will run for as long as it keeps getting fuel.

The reason batteries keep coming up is because people have to replace them and it’s a huge cost.

As far as the subsidies “not being pretty”, I agree, but probably not the reason you think. The way the liberal media presents that is not very accurate.

Yes there is a reason EV’s are taking over in other “developed countries”. They are taking over in countries that depend on us for their defense. They are taking over in countries that don’t understand why we want things like guns, and free speech. They are taking over in countries where people don’t own and enjoy the things we have here. They are taking over in countries that most of us here in this forum would never want to be like, and they still account for only a small percentage of vehicles in europe, despite “taking over. They are taking over in places like California where they have basically been forced on people. However, most Americans have rejected EV’s, simply because for what people use their vehicles for, gas vehicles are usually a better option.

 

[alternative]

I agree, replacing a battery after 5 years? Why would you do that? Most are warrantied far longer than that. It's not hard to find extremely high mileage Toyota hybrids with the original battery still working. The Rivian I have on order has an 8 year 175k mile warranty on the battery and motors. Show me a production ICE vehicle that comes close to that. Manufacturers can't survive offering huge warranties like that unless the hardware is solid.

The battery may be good but the question is will Rivian be here in 8 years?

 

[benenglish]

Do seatbelts, helmets, crash safety standards, vehicle insurance, compulsory school, USDA/food safety inspections, (most) building codes, general traffic laws, and consumer protection laws count?

Tough call.

I can argue that more than half of that is currently unnecessary, were the USAs laws otherwise logical.

 

[no2gates]

The battery may be good but the question is will Rivian be here in 8 years?

Since they are making all those delivery trucks for Amazon, I would think so.