Electric Vehicles here to stay, for good or bad?

[Rhineland]

Have you looked at repair cost for the Rivian?


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Yes and the problems are in relation to lack of parts and sensors. Have you seen the repair costs for a new Mercedes GLS or Range Rover? Luxury vehicles are expensive to repair when damaged.

 

[no2gates]

I know this won't be a popular take but I'm all for EVs.

1. When the SHTF you can generate power from solar, wind, hydro. Refined petroleum products are extremely energy intensive and difficult to produce to modern standards. Ethanol is not a long term option for most vehicles due to the hydroscopic nature of ethanol and the damage it can do to seals and hoses, and growing, fermenting, and distilling crops is time consuming and difficult.

If the SHTF is due to an EMP or another Carrington event, none of that shit will be helpful at all.
The only thing that will still run are old cars with carburetors.
I've got a decent size solar system with a Tesla Powerwall 2 for backup, but an EMP would make all that investment useless.

2. The minerals used in packs are highly recyclable regardless of some of the fud you read online. The packs also last a long time - especially LFP packs. Once used in a vehicle they can be repurposed for stationary storage.
3. How many of you have driven a powerful EV? I have a Rivian R1S on order and its performance is unbelievable. No ICE vehicle can compare.
4. Lack of maintenance, really it's just tires and brake fluid.

Less maintenance, but how much is a replacement battery pack?

I agree EV's are the future, but the future isn't here yet. The battery technology is years away.

 

[Rhineland]

If the SHTF is due to an EMP or another Carrington event, none of that shit will be helpful at all.
The only thing that will still run are old cars with carburetors.


Less maintenance, but how much is a replacement battery pack?

I agree EV's are the future, but the future isn't here yet. The battery technology is years away.

Carrington Event would likely not knock out an EV. People have a complete misunderstanding of how CME's affect electronics. The big stuff like a grid is knocked out. Small scale stuff would likely be fine. A lot of the power electronics on an EV is shielded to begin with to avoid EMF/backfeed. It doesn't fry electronics as a huge CME needs a huge antenna to pickup the EMF. How are you going to fill up on gas when the grid is down and fuel pumps need the grid, or refineries?

If it's an EMP then it's from a nuke, in that case I think there will be bigger issues.

How much is a replacement engine and transmission? These things are built to last a long time. There's Tesla's out there with huge mileages on them. Modern NMC and LFP cells last an extremely long time.

 

[Tex62]

Yes and the problems are in relation to lack of parts and sensors. Have you seen the repair costs for a new Mercedes GLS or Range Rover? Luxury vehicles are expensive to repair when damaged.

Here’s Why That Rivian R1T Repair Cost $42,000 After Just A Minor Fender-Bender - The Autopian

Last week, a pretty common and minor-looking fender-bender ended up going viral on the Rivian Owners’ Forum. The wreck, a relatively low-speed rear-end collision involving a Lexus RX330 bumping an electric Rivian R1T’s passenger side rear corner, resulted in what looked like minor damage. A bent...

www.theautopian.com

I’ll pass. But thank you for driving up insurance costs.


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[Rhineland]

Here’s Why That Rivian R1T Repair Cost $42,000 After Just A Minor Fender-Bender - The Autopian

Last week, a pretty common and minor-looking fender-bender ended up going viral on the Rivian Owners’ Forum. The wreck, a relatively low-speed rear-end collision involving a Lexus RX330 bumping an electric Rivian R1T’s passenger side rear corner, resulted in what looked like minor damage. A bent...

www.theautopian.com

I’ll pass. But thank you for driving up insurance costs.


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No doubt an extreme example and in part due to insurance companies not having the data to properly price repairs and for a lack of repair shops knowledgeable and willing to deal with them. This isn't an 'EV' issue, it's a new model from a new mark issue.

In my 15 years of driving on two continents and being licensed in three separate countries and 5 times (car and motorcycle) I've yet to crash or even have a speeding ticket.

 

[kbaxter60]

How are you going to fill up on gas when the grid is down and fuel pumps need the grid, or refineries?

Movie recommendation: Omega Man

 

[Rhineland]

Movie recommendation: Omega Man

I've read the book, I've not seen the movie.

In any disaster situation gas is normally gone in hours. During Ian and Irma it was impossible to get gas in the days leading up to, and after the hurricane. We were prepared but outside of stability gas is hard to come by.

 

[kbaxter60]

I've read the book, I've not seen the movie.

In any disaster situation gas is normally gone in hours. During Ian and Irma it was impossible to get gas in the days leading up to, and after the hurricane. We were prepared but outside of stability gas is hard to come by.

Point being, that you can pump gas manually. No grid required. And you are likely right about it being unavailable in many crises. But unless you are full solar/wind, you likely won't be charging that truck, either. And prep to defend your "power island", or that might not be available.

 

[Tnhawk]

Point being, that you cam pump gas manually. No grid required. And you are likely right about it being unavailable in many crises. But unless you are full solar/wind, you likely won't be charging that truck, either. And prep to defend your "power island", or that might not be available.

At that point, what difference will it make?

 

[Rhineland]

Point being, that you cam pump gas manually. No grid required. And you are likely right about it being unavailable in many crises. But unless you are full solar/wind, you likely won't be charging that truck, either. And prep to defend your "power island", or that might not be available.

I'm actually in the process of designing a full solar/off-grid home that is still grid tied. Although I understand this isn't typical of affordable for most. I have a background in electronics as well as math and physics so this stuff is interesting to me. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a V8 too, but running a V8 vehicle during a SHTF scenario is unrealistic unless you have huge reserves of fuel or can produce very pure ethanol and that's impractical in my opinion.

Most people won't be traveling much in these situations anyway. Horses and bicycles are probably the best bet.

 

[Polkwright]

You still have a battery to replace in 5 years & it won't be cheap. I know several people that bought a Prius. When the battery died it was 5k for the battery + labor if your not a do it yourself type. I'm not much on the whole electric cars yet. Especially when the US government & other countries gives million of dollars to Tesla in subsidies.

This all compares to Tesla reporting a $312 million profit for the third quarter. Subtract the $713 million in U.S. subsidies, and Tesla's results would be far weaker. Add in the international subsidies received from countries such as Norway, Sweden, The Netherlands and the U.K., and the situation would look even worse.


https://realmoney.thestreet.com/inv...in-product-isn-t-cars-it-s-subsidies-14769263

That article is from 2018. Things have changed.

 

[Rhineland]

That article is from 2018. Things have changed.

I agree, replacing a battery after 5 years? Why would you do that? Most are warrantied far longer than that. It's not hard to find extremely high mileage Toyota hybrids with the original battery still working. The Rivian I have on order has an 8 year 175k mile warranty on the battery and motors. Show me a production ICE vehicle that comes close to that. Manufacturers can't survive offering huge warranties like that unless the hardware is solid.

 

[TheDan]

In SHTF I'll be running my diesel truck off the rendered fat of tresspassers and marxists.

 

[glenbo]

In SHTF I'll be running my diesel truck off the rendered fat of tresspassers and marxists.

You should have an endless supply.

 

[Rhineland]

In SHTF I'll be running my diesel truck off the rendered fat of tresspassers and marxists.

You know, you do make a strong argument for a pre emissions diesel.

 

[dsgrey]

Just over 1/3 rent versus own their dwelling. So the EV market can only target 2/3 of the population unless they develop a very fast full charge capability.

 

[RoyGBiv]

Call me when EV's don't come with a "Park Outside" warning.... At that point I'll remind you that the cost of an EV doesn't justify it's alleged energy savings and don't get me started on the "green" BS.... Texas is among the highest percentage of renewables on the grid and we're only at about 20%. I'm cool with hybrids (although no idea about repair costs) or anyone that wants to own a plug-in only EV for the zoom factor, but don't BS me about being green.

 

[Havok1]

I know this won't be a popular take but I'm all for EVs.

1. When the SHTF you can generate power from solar, wind, hydro. Refined petroleum products are extremely energy intensive and difficult to produce to modern standards. Ethanol is not a long term option for most vehicles due to the hydroscopic nature of ethanol and the damage it can do to seals and hoses, and growing, fermenting, and distilling crops is time consuming and difficult.
2. The minerals used in packs are highly recyclable regardless of some of the fud you read online. The packs also last a long time - especially LFP packs. Once used in a vehicle they can be repurposed for stationary storage.
3. How many of you have driven a powerful EV? I have a Rivian R1S on order and its performance is unbelievable. No ICE vehicle can compare.
4. Lack of maintenance, really it's just tires and brake fluid.
5. Low cost to run due to electricity being cheap and low maintenance costs.
6. Not being reliant on oil companies or middle eastern islamic hell holes to keep my vehicle running.

It's the ultimate choice for being self reliant. I'm not against ICE either, I plan on buying a 5L V8 mustang, but my primary vehicle will be the Rivian.

lol. Locations checks out.

When the SHTF and you don’t have electricity, your best hope for charging your car will be a gas generator.

In bad weather situations is when solar and wind are the least effective. All of our power grid issues are the result of solar and wind failures.

As far as the low cost, the cost is really just shifted. Between the tax payers sharing the burden of your vehicle, electric vehicles cost much more than gas equivalents, and even if you don’t have to pay for oil changes along the way, you go through more tires and the cost of a new battery will dwarf the cost of most people’s ICE vehicle costs over the same time period.

The success of companies like Rivian hinge on EV mandates.

I’m not really against EV’s, but for most uses, they are not better. I am however against EV mandates.

 

[Havok1]

Most batteries will likely outlast the engine. LFP cells will do 3000 cycles down to 80%. That's a hell of a lot of miles.

Sure and I'm 100% behind domestic sources of energy, oil, gas, nuclear, all have an important role to play.

On a vehicle with a 250 mile range that’s 150k miles before a ~$30k bill comes due.

For some comparison, earlier in this thread I compared the cost of whatever the cheapest Tesla was to a Honda accord, and I believe the cost savings by buying a Honda could have bought enough gas to drive that far and still wouldn’t have approached the cost of the Tesla yet.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

On a vehicle with a 250 mile range that’s 150k miles before a ~$30k bill comes due.

For some comparison, earlier in this thread I compared the cost of whatever the cheapest Tesla was to a Honda accord, and I believe the cost savings by buying a Honda could have bought enough gas to drive that far and still wouldn’t have approached the cost of the Tesla yet.

Just doing the math, I come up with 750k miles.

3,000 charges x 250 miles, am I incorrect in my thinking?