Fienstein bump stock bill

[Ole Cowboy]

What? You want us to read the actual text and understand that the NRA didn't do what everyone says they did?

That won't do any good. Perception is reality. The NRA gave an inch, their (former and current) allies perceive they gave a mile, and the anti-gunners will try to take a full astronomical unit.

The Republicans that have used this NRA statement to launch a poorly-crafted bill are just building on the bad foundation laid by the NRA. What the NRA did was bad enough but what will come of it could be disastrous.

That statement you quote isn't as bad as people are making out but it's the match that can start a forest fire.

I'm not happy with the NRA right now. Not at all. I'm just wondering what to do about it.

Ben I always read your posts and find them quite good and I cannot think of a time I have not concurred in your thinking. That said and on this and the other forums where this subject has arose what I see a lot of, is half baked, statements by folks that I have to wonder what their motives are...the NRA did NOT say that and you cannot extract that from their statement even in your wildest imagination.

You right, perception IS reality, an oft used adage in my career as a consultant. So when we have so called gun rights supporters spewing false information about what the voice of the gun owners think does anyone believe this makes us look smart, well organized or standing for what RIGHT????

On the news this morning and I listen to the news in my office all day. I was listening to a Big 3 news and the story was on the current lawsuit that has been filed against Slide Fire. The person said that it converted a semi auto to a full auto it just did not fire as fast, then went on to say that Full Auto was against the law and this get around the law...IF perception is reality, then a whole lot of people this morning from soccer moms to men on the way to work now think this was the problem in LV and had it not been for that no one would have got hurt, which is also what the lawsuit says.

YES perception IS reality and if that public out there who beleives in the 2nd RKBA even tho they don't own and will not own them, if they see us as a bunch of nut jobs that support a cheat to get around SA to go FA, we are thrown into the same pot as Paddock and we are going down.

 

[benenglish]

Texas congressmen Louie Gohmert, Sheila Jackson Lee, Ted Poe, John Ratcliffe, and Lamar Smith sit on that committee. They can be reached through the House Switchboard Operator at 202-224-3121.

A phone call to all these folks to register your opposition would be in order.

Sheila Jackson Lee's people won't be receptive. Ted Poe's probably will. Those are the only two on that list with whom I have had face-to-face dealings.

Still, you're right. A call to each is in order.

 

[Younggun]

If you haven't called/emailed your reps yet you are late to the party.

 

[benenglish]

I think we agree a lot more than we disagree.

...the NRA did NOT say that...

No, they didn't. Your quoting the entire statement makes that clear. I certainly don't disagree on that point.

...when we have so called gun rights supporters spewing false information about what the voice of the gun owners think does anyone believe this makes us look smart...?

You're right. It certainly doesn't. However, it does lead me to how I'll end this post.

...a Big 3 news...person said that it converted a semi auto to a full auto ... then went on to say that Full Auto was against the law ...

All that's garbage and as knowledgeable gun owners we know better. However, I don't expect any better from the Big 3. NBC has been loudly proclaiming on their primary evening news program that the firearms were converted to full auto all along and doing so without any qualifiers, even after the whole "bump stock" thing entered their narrative. They have outright said that bump stocks convert SA to FA, period, full stop.

I expect them to lie.

What I don't expect is for the NRA to enable them. For example, this...

...if they see us as a bunch of nut jobs that support a cheat ...

...is where the rubber meets the road.

As our primary voice, I expected the NRA to go into full sympathy mode, followed immediately by full educational mode. The public didn't need a "we agree with the gun-banners in spirit and think these things need another look" statement. The public needed a "LV was a tragedy; let us help you understand the details and the big issues" statement.

In short, the NRA didn't get out front and set the tone. They initially tried to rely on their SOP and just lie low till things died down. When the heat got too bad, they decided to say something. And they should have known that what they were saying would be misinterpreted all over the place and used as a cudgel against gun owners.

That's where I'm angry with the NRA. Do they live inside the Beltway Bubble to such an extent that they couldn't foresee how their (arguably technically innocuous) words would be twisted by pretty much everybody, all to the detriment of the 2A?

I expect more foresight from the people to whom I've sent many thousands of dollars so they can protect me from the sort of rampant ignorance I see splashed all over the place right now.

I'm still an NRA Golden Eagle and I'll remain one. But I think my extra donations will start going to the SAF, now. If the legislation proposed doesn't die then we're gonna be needing some lawsuits and nobody is better at that than the SAF.

 

[benenglish]

If you haven't called/emailed your reps yet you are late to the party.

To those of you who met my sis at the TGT Family Reunion, know that she's been on the phone. A lot.

Have pity for those poor staffers.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Ben, while I generally agree you seem to think that the NRA has a voice to the public...they DON'T. The news is FAKE news and the big 3 own the narrative, NRA is not going to educate anyone outside of its base. Think NBC, etc are give the NRA a night time special so they could discuss the pro's an con's of slide fire.

Am I 100% happy with the NRA? No, but I will tell you this, I would have drafted about the same thing they said as they KNEW they had to make a statement and it would be all over the news, so what would you guys have them say? Paddock should have bought a Slide Fire instead of a Bump Stock, SLide shoots faster.

Sometime what we gun guys want to hear and what the public NEEDS to hear are not the same thing.

How much time do any of you have in front of a TV camera or have some reporter from the paper interview you for a story or opinion. I have a lot from my days as a CEO of a company that was high profile in space that got a lot of news coverage, I was on TV, radio, newspapers and on the speaking circuit in Dallas. Most recently was interviewed by the San Antonio paper on Open Carry and I have had a column in various papers. Trust me you really have to parse your words very carefully due to "selective readers" who will claim you wrote something and EVER put it in print with quotes that you never did.

The NRA was in a rock and a hard place...

 

[benenglish]

How much time do any of you have in front of a TV camera or have some reporter from the paper interview you for a story or opinion.

Not a lot but more than a little. And I take your point. The last time I was quoted in the Wall Street Journal, the reporter had a viewpoint and I wasn't going to change it. He accurately quoted about one third of a sentence, leaving out all the provisos and pre-conditions that preceded my statement. In that way, he made me look like an idiot.

Whenever I've been interviewed after that, I've developed the habit of making half a statement while looking one direction, inserting all my weasel clauses, and then turning my head before finishing my statement. If they want to misquote me, the video will show a jump cut and a written report should include ellipsis marks. It's the best I can do.

However, the notion that the media sets the narrative is one I accept. I don't exactly agree that I...

...seem to think that the NRA has a voice to the public...

...inasmuch as I think they don't try hard enough to have that voice.

For example...

what would you guys have them say?...

...is a perfectly reasonable question.

I would have had them:

• Add a line or two offering consulting services to the media to help them understand the technicalities involved.
  • They would have looked like they were trying to help. If the media didn't use that resource, they could club them over the head with it in the future with "We tried to tell you the issue was complicated. We tried to educate you. You wouldn't listen."
• Omit the sentence: "The NRA believes that devices designed to allow semi-automatic rifles to function like fully-automatic rifles should be subject to additional regulations."
  • This is the killer in the document, the sentence that gives gun-banners hope and RINOs cover to ride along with the gun-banners.
• Omit the sentence: "To that end, on behalf of our five million members across the country, we urge Congress to pass National Right-to-Carry reciprocity, which will allow law-abiding Americans to defend themselves and their families from acts of violence."
  • This was just a bizarre linking of two different issues. If the NRA actually thought Right-to-Carry could somehow be advanced through any words spoken in the aftermath of LV, I want some of what they were smoking.

The NRA was in a rock and a hard place...

Yeah. And they decided to fall down and hit their head on that rock.

 

[Vaquero]

#67.
I concur.

 

[vmax]

The NRA sat back and watched LV unfold. They got really scared, more so than when the Sandy Hook Hoax happened.

The statement they made was like offering up the bump stock as a sacrifice to the left. They wrongfully thought, like Chamerlain did in Pre WW2 that appeasment will solve the problem.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Breaking, just got this from the NRA:

FROM: Marion P. Hammer
USF Executive Director
NRA Past President

At this writing three (3) Republican members of Congress from Florida and 10 other Republican Congressmen from around the country have sponsored a major gun control bill.

H.R. 3999 sponsored by Florida Republican Congressmen Carlos Curbelo (R-Miami), Dennis Ross (R-Tampa), and Florida Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (R-Miami) is a dangerous bill.

While pretending that it is simple bill to ban "bump-stocks" it is actually a stalking horse for major gun control that is far reaching.

We should all wake up and pay attention. When members of congress who have pledged their allegiance to the Constitution and the Second Amendment and have made a commitment to protect freedom and the firearms rights of their constituents, suddenly abandon those promises, it's time to take note.

Rushing to file gun control legislation to capitalize on a horrific tragedy is something we've grown to expect from antigun, anti-Second Amendment Democrats but certainly not from those claiming to be Republicans.

Use the link within this article to view a copy of the bill.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/curbelo-moulton-introduce-bipartisan-bump-stock-legislation



Curbelo, Moulton Introduce Bipartisan Bump Stock Legislation
Twenty House members, 10 Democratic and 10 GOP, are co-sponsors

Reps. Carlos Curbelo and Seth Moulton introduced bipartisan legislationTuesday to ban devices — including bump stocks — that “increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle.”

The bill aims to ban the manufacture, sale, and possession of bump stocks, attachments that can increase the rate of fire of a semiautomatic rifle tenfold — essentially making them fully automatic.

The Florida Republican and Massachusetts Democrat were joined by 18 co-sponsors from both parties.

“We can always be doing more, but this bill is a crucial starting point,” Moulton said in a statement.

“Keeping this conversation going, passing this legislation, and listening to the American people will allow us to help make America safer so that we do not need to live in fear of weapons of war being used against our families and friends,” Moulton said.

Bump stocks were thrust into the spotlight after investigators discovered 12 rifles fitted with the devices in a 32nd-floor room at Las Vegas’ Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, where a gunman opened fire on concert-goers on Oct. 1.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/curbelo-moulton-introduce-bipartisan-bump-stock-legislation

 

[SidewaysTA]

MAC put out the word on this two days ago.

 

[easy rider]

MAC put out the word on this two days ago.

how many threads is this on now?

 

[SidewaysTA]

Not sure. Not enough in my opinion.

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[SidewaysTA]

Has this one been posted.?

 

[easy rider]

Has this one been posted.?

Didn't mean that it was a bad video, I agree. But then again, do the anti's care? And is the bump fire stocks their end game?

As far as republican politicians go. Well, politician says it all.

 

[SidewaysTA]

Agree, but I've been spamming them all over the net not so much for the anti's but in the hopes that FUDDs and Joe Six Pack understand how useless this legislation is.

 

[easy rider]

Agree, but I've been spamming them all over the net not so much for the anti's but in the hopes that FUDDs and Joe Six Pack understand how useless this legislation is.

Better to directly contact your reps. Most ordinary people already have their mind made up, or rather had their mind made up for them.

 

[SidewaysTA]

Oh yes, the reps have already been contacted.

The nra too.

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[Ole Cowboy]

MAC put out the word on this two days ago.

I saw what he put out and I felt then and do now that a youtube does not deliver the message so I put out what I feel is the message that is clear and with a link. Action, not knee jerk reaction without the clarity of facts.

 

[TheDan]

What? You want us to read the actual text and understand that the NRA didn't do what everyone says they did?

I read it to say that they believe bump stocks convert a firearm to a machine gun, they are asking the BATFE to bureaucratically decree them as such (something they should be condemning the practice of; not requesting more of it), and they think Obama's BATFE was incompetent in "allowing" it in the first place.

Is my perception inaccurate?