First Atomic Bomb Dropped on Hiroshima Today.

[ROGER4314]

Good to know. Thanks!

Flash

 

[karlac]

It's easy to act calloused when you're not the one shoveling up the atomically cremated corpses of men, women and children who posed no threat. I challenge anyone to look at just one picture of a baby killed in the crossfire of any given war and maintain their superior attitude.

Yeah, maybe. Until you've seen the aftermath, and had to write the letters home, of the actions of a mother, with a baby, which she carried wrapped in a blanket, along with a hand grenade. Killed her, the baby, three American soldiers, and wounded nine others.

**** winning hearts and minds, the only way to stop that mentality is just like you do with cockroaches ... or not be there in the first place.

 

[London]

Yeah, maybe. Until you've seen the aftermath, and had to write the letters home, of the actions of a mother, with a baby, which she carried wrapped in a blanket, along with a hand grenade. Killed her, the baby, three American soldiers, and wounded nine others.

**** winning hearts and minds, the only way to stop that mentality is just like you do with cockroaches ... or not be there in the first place.

Kill them all to eliminate the <1% who would do a thing like that? I'm just a layman but that doesn't strike me as the way to go either.

 

[AcidFlashGordon]

It's easy to act calloused when you're not the one shoveling up the atomically cremated corpses of men, women and children who posed no threat. I challenge anyone to look at just one picture of a baby killed in the crossfire of any given war and maintain their superior attitude.

That's somewhat true but you have to look at the attitude of the war mentality of the time. The U.S. had nearly finished its "island hopping" campaign (one my Father, God rest his soul, was involved in as a Marine) and the next move was attacking the Japanese mainland. Projected death toll of fighting personnel, on both sides, was in the millions. Japan had NO intention of surrendering and was willing to fight to the death of every man, woman and child on their home island.

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on your point of view, the lesser of evils was chosen....dropping the Atomic bombs. After the second one on Nagasaki, the Japanese military realized that America had this terrible weapon and they had no chance to stop the destruction caused by this weapon so they finally surrendered, ending WW II...and saving millions of lives in the interim.

But was dropping the Atomic bomb any different from the carpet bombing that was going on in Japan and had gone on in Germany? How many hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians were killed in those campaigns? It's much like what Israel is going through now. Hamas is firing rockets into their civilian areas from schools, hospitals, mosques and other locations populated by civilians and Israel has to take these launchers out. Netanyahu described it very well in his interview with Sean Hannity last night. Israel tries to limit civilian causalities and they even warn the people in the area with leaflets, texts and phone calls. But innocents are still killed.

There's a reason war is Hell. It's not some old-time everyone stand out in the open on a battlefield in formation and shoot at each other any more. It's destruction and death with weapons not thought of in history. It's unfortunate but there will be civilian causalities in any war fought now and in the near future.

 

[Sapper740]

It's easy to act calloused when you're not the one shoveling up the atomically cremated corpses of men, women and children who posed no threat. I challenge anyone to look at just one picture of a baby killed in the crossfire of any given war and maintain their superior attitude.

Suppose we didn't use the two Atomic bombs and had to invade the Japanese Home Islands? Have you read the estimated casualties, both civilian and military from such an invasion? It has nothing to do with maintaining a superior attitude....it has nothing to do with emotions at all....it was 100,000 casualties vs millions. Using the bombs was a no-brainer.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Based on what I've read it probably saved millions of lives and there were far fewer civilian deaths - by an order magnitude.

I can only imagine living through WWII. Tens of millions of people killed in combat, diseases, starvation, etc. The entire world at war. Everyone was bombing each other's civilians plus you had the holocaust - nasty total war for all the marbles.

I think the context matters. I'm sure it was a difficult decision but it may have been the most humane option given all of the circumstances.

 

[breakingcontact]

 

[ROGER4314]

The only way to win a war is to find out what hurts the enemy the most and do a LOT of that! If we fought China, smoking 200,000 people wouldn't put a dent in their population and it wouldn't bother them a bit. Cutting off their resources, choking off their factories and blocking raw materials would screw China. Nothing goes in....nothing goes out. That's the way I'd fight 'em.

Please don't discount the fact that we fire bombed Germany and targeted civilian population centers. German casualty figures vary wildly but it's likely that the death toll easily exceeded Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We found what made them hurt and we did a lot of that.

To Germany: Sorry....you shouldn't have started the fight by invading other European nations.
To Japan: Don't whine. Remember Pearl Harbor?

Flash

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Actually, the Enola Gay resides in the Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly, Virginia.

Specifically in the Washington Dulles Airport.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Based on what I've read it probably saved millions of lives and there were far fewer civilian deaths - by an order magnitude.

I can only imagine living through WWII. Tens of millions of people killed in combat, diseases, starvation, etc. The entire world at war. Everyone was bombing each other's civilians plus you had the holocaust - nasty total war for all the marbles.

I think the context matters. I'm sure it was a difficult decision but it may have been the most humane option given all of the circumstances.

My father was on and Island tour in the Pacific back in WWII. Towards the end he was an Intell officer and involved in the planning of the Invasion into Japn. Their estimates were up to 1 Million US lives lost. This is course was back in the days when we planned on winning the war(s) and we were going to kick the chit out of the bad guys until they folded their cards and begged to surrender. We have not won a war since...

 

[ROGER4314]

Cowboy....Do you have the Combat Infantry Badge like shown in your avatar?

Flash

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Cowboy....Do you have the Combat Infantry Badge like shown in your avatar?

Flash

If I did not I would have it as an avatar...yes I do! I have received various kudos over my life time, few have much meaning to them and most are long forgotten. The one thing I am the most proud of my CIB. I did not have go to Vietnam, I had a draft deferment due to my job, but I told the boss NO, if my country calls I must go, told him I would not enlist, but if they drafted me then so be it. When I got to Cam Rah Bay Vietnam I got peeled off and offered a good position, desk job, AC office, I said no, I came to fight that is where I want to be. I spent over 13 of the next 14 months in the bush...

 

[karlac]

If I did not, I would not have it as an avatar...yes I do!

fify

Started to post, willing to bet that you did indeed. Having had the smell of burning shit in your nostrils is hard to fake. But figured it was none of my business. Well done!

 

[ROGER4314]

You have my respect, sir and thank you for your service! I wasn't being nosy. I have profound respect for the CIB.

(Regarding Avatars, however, some of the members have pretty women as Avatars. That doesn't make them Female.....snicker.)

The CIB is something few people understand and it's a damned shame. That you have one, says a lot about you. When I see the Medal of Honor, it chokes me up. There are some things that words alone can not justify in tribute.

Flash

 

[karlac]

When I see the Medal of Honor, it chokes me up. There are some things that words alone can not justify in tribute.

Which you just did, beautifully, on both counts!

Very well said.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

You have my respect, sir and thank you for your service! I wasn't being nosy. I have profound respect for the CIB.

(Regarding Avatars, however, some of the members have pretty women as Avatars. That doesn't make them Female.....snicker.)

The CIB is something I few people understand and it's a damned shame. That you have one, says a lot about you. When I see the Medal of Honor, it chokes me up. There are some things that words alone can not justify in tribute.

Flash

What the CIB says is simple: You were on the killing fields and in the bloody arena, that to me is everything. I am not alone in those thoughts:

"There is one great thing that you men will all be able to say after this war is over and you are home once again. You may be thankful that twenty years from now when you are sitting by the fireplace with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what you did in the great World War II, you WON'T have to cough, shift him to the other knee and say, "Well, your Granddaddy shoveled shit in Louisiana.” No, Sir, you can look him straight in the eye and say, "Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-G-dda-ned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!"

 

[ROGER4314]

"Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-G-dda-ned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!"

My Father was there and spent the entire war directly behind the front lines as a Captain/surgeon in the Medical corps. He was bombed, strafed and was under fire for the entire campaign. A German kid threw a grenade into his Jeep. It killed two soldiers and wounded Dad.

He helped to free several Concentration camps and returned from the war a mental mess. He wasn't much as a Dad but I always respected his WW2 service.

Flash

 

[breakingcontact]

Ole Cowboy you have the EIB too? I met a drill sergeant who wore that instead of his CIB. Said it was harder to get for him but I understand how the CIB could mean more to a guy as well.

 

[Ole Cowboy]

Ole Cowboy you have the EIB too? I met a drill sergeant who wore that instead of his CIB. Said it was harder to get for him but I understand how the CIB could mean more to a guy as well.

No I don't, they taught the course to our entire Bn, but all of us with a CIB were not allowed to attend the course, said we did not need it????

 

[Ole Cowboy]

"Son, your Granddaddy rode with the Great Third Army and a Son-of-a-G-dda-ned-Bitch named Georgie Patton!"

My Father was there and spent the entire war directly behind the front lines as a Captain/surgeon in the Medical corps. He was bombed, strafed and was under fire for the entire campaign. A German kid threw a grenade into his Jeep. It killed two soldiers and wounded Dad.

He helped to free several Concentration camps and returned from the war a mental mess. He wasn't much as a Dad but I always respected his WW2 service.

Flash

I served under his son when he commanded the 2nd AD, I stayed in touch with him until he passed away back around '06 IIRC. He retired to a small town outside Boston and raised Blueberries.