First Watch Restaurants

[TheJayMan]

My cousin is a manager with First Watch restaurants in Fort Worth. They have decided to ban all firearms nation wide due to the Texas conceal carry law. Attached is a pic of the sign that will be displayed. According to the email, they decided that since Texas did this, they were gonna ban guns in Texas, but now it's a good time to just change their policy nation wide. My cousin will be putting in his 2 week notice. I won't be eating there any more.


View attachment 273843

This sign is missing an important piece, here's the full sign:

 

[toddnjoyce]

This sign is missing an important piece, here's the full sign: View attachment 274575

The legislature provides “substantially similar to” as a bone to businesses in the 30.05 language that went into effect. This is unlike the .06/.07 language which is verbatim or invalid.

 

[Aus_Schwaben]

Somebody in the restaurant business needs to open one that requires everyone to be armed! Or at least one person with each group.

There are a few out there that encourage carry by offering discounts by showing your LTC!

 

[rotor]

This sign is missing an important piece, here's the full sign: View attachment 274575

Maybe, maybe not. The signage is still being debated. You may be trespassing even with a gun buster sign.

 

[toddnjoyce]

…You may be trespassing even with a gun buster sign.

No. Just no. Unless you’re legal services plan lawyer who stands to make money selling your plan with that statement.

 

[rotor]

No. Just no. Unless you’re legal services plan lawyer who stands to make money selling your plan with that statement.

In another post I said I have a letter to the AG requesting clarification. That will probably take months. In the meantime you can use your own judgement to see if you cross over a gun buster sign and are trespassing while permitless carrying. I don't know the answer. I don't think you do either. My lawyers (yes I do pay for the service) say I would be trespassing. What do your lawyers say?

 

[toddnjoyce]

In another post I said I have a letter to the AG requesting clarification. That will probably take months…

If ever.

Only those requestors authorized by law may seek the Attorney General's written advice through a formal opinion.

The Government Code lists the officials authorized to request formal attorney general opinions. The attorney general is prohibited by statute from giving a written opinion to anyone other than an authorized requestor.

Attorney General Opinions | Office of the Attorney General

An attorney general opinion is a written interpretation of existing law. Attorney general opinions cannot create new provisions in the law or correct unintended, undesirable effects of the law. Attorney general opinions do not necessarily reflect the attorney general's personal views, nor does...

www.texasattorneygeneral.gov

…What do your lawyers say?

What my lawyer says is irrelevant, I have a by law defense to prosecution. Outside of that, there is the Morales opinion already on file that discusses how a business MAY provide effective notice.

 

[rotor]

If ever.

Only those requestors authorized by law may seek the Attorney General's written advice through a formal opinion.

The Government Code lists the officials authorized to request formal attorney general opinions. The attorney general is prohibited by statute from giving a written opinion to anyone other than an authorized requestor.

Attorney General Opinions | Office of the Attorney General

An attorney general opinion is a written interpretation of existing law. Attorney general opinions cannot create new provisions in the law or correct unintended, undesirable effects of the law. Attorney general opinions do not necessarily reflect the attorney general's personal views, nor does...

www.texasattorneygeneral.gov

What my lawyer says is irrelevant, I have a by law defense to prosecution. Outside of that, there is the Morales opinion already on file that discusses how a business MAY provide effective notice.

I have an opinion from AG's office on another legal issue I wrote them about so who knows. If they post 30.06/07 and a gunbuster do you have a defense to prosecution? Maybe, maybe not. My lawyers say no. I argued with them about it too. After their response I see their point. I don't know the answer but I personally don't plan on testing it. Maybe CJ Grisham will do it for us.

 

[toddnjoyce]

I have an opinion from AG's office on another legal issue I wrote them about so who knows. If they post 30.06/07 and a gunbuster do you have a defense to prosecution? Maybe, maybe not. My lawyers say no. I argued with them about it too. After their response I see their point. I don't know the answer but I personally don't plan on testing it. Maybe CJ Grisham will do it for us.

Congrats. A .06 and .07 on the door is a whole different ball of wax. I cannot enter under the .06 or .07 and I don’t get to conveniently or magically change my status to permitless by taking the LTC out of my wallet.

 

[rotor]

Congrats. A .06 and .07 on the door is a whole different ball of wax. I cannot enter under the .06 or .07 and I don’t get to conveniently or magically change my status to permitless by taking the LTC out of my wallet.

If they have an 06/07 on the door but not an 05(or a gunbuster???) I carry under permitless carry and not LTC. You don't lose the right of permitless carry just because you have an LTC.

 

[toddnjoyce]

If they have an 06/07 on the door but not an 05(or a gunbuster???) I carry under permitless carry and not LTC. You don't lose the right of permitless carry just because you have an LTC.

You cannot have it both ways. The LTC gives you the defense to prosecution for a .05 sign, you did not ‘switch’ to permitless. Here’s a real world example why that is.

Posted .06,.07 no .05 and LTC goes past the door still carrying. Business owner engages LEO who demands your ID in order to trespass you. By law you have to show the LTC to the LEO. You get tagged for a .06 or .07 violation.

Now, if you do NOT have LTC, the .06 and .07 sign does not apply to you. If there’s no .05 sign, then go right in. If the business asks you to leave, leave. If LEO engages you, you’ll get charged trespass, but not trespass with a firearm.

 

[Curt 58]

So why even go there? There are a lot of Restaurants begging for your buisness. Some even have the wait staff armed.
I vote with my money. And if they don't want my buisness, they don't get it. Clear and simple.
If it bothers me that much I either notify the Management, or Corporate that my dining will be done down the street where I'm welcome.
That way when they go out of buisness, this is Texas After All, I won't miss them.

 

[rotor]

You cannot have it both ways. The LTC gives you the defense to prosecution for a .05 sign, you did not ‘switch’ to permitless. Here’s a real world example why that is.

Posted .06,.07 no .05 and LTC goes past the door still carrying. Business owner engages LEO who demands your ID in order to trespass you. By law you have to show the LTC to the LEO. You get tagged for a .06 or .07 violation.

Now, if you do NOT have LTC, the .06 and .07 sign does not apply to you. If there’s no .05 sign, then go right in. If the business asks you to leave, leave. If LEO engages you, you’ll get charged trespass, but not trespass with a firearm.

That’s your interpretation. I don’t agree with it. In general LTC gives you more rights than permitless carry but because you have an LTC doesn’t mean you have given up your rights to permitless carry.
Today I carry as a permitless carry, tomorrow I carry as LTC. Next day I carry Motorist Protection Act with gun in my glove box. Think about it, store has 06/07 and you have LTC, Joe next to you is carrying permitless. He can go in but you think you can’t?

 

[toddnjoyce]

That’s your interpretation. I don’t agree with it. In general LTC gives you more rights than permitless carry but because you have an LTC doesn’t mean you have given up your rights to permitless carry.
Today I carry as a permitless carry, tomorrow I carry as LTC. Next day I carry Motorist Protection Act with gun in my glove box. Think about it, store has 06/07 and you have LTC, Joe next to you is carrying permitless. He can go in but you think you can’t?

Wow.

Tell you what, I’m going to ask you try that out. Put the old LTC on your dresser and open carry into a .06/.07 only place. When the business asks you to leave, tell them to get an LEO involved and stick around for the interaction. Make sure that interaction gets to the point where ID is demanded by the LEO.

Worst case outcome is you get to call legal services plan.

 

[rotor]

Wow.

Tell you what, I’m going to ask you try that out. Put the old LTC on your dresser and open carry into a .06/.07 only place. When the business asks you to leave, tell them to get an LEO involved and stick around for the interaction. Make sure that interaction gets to the point where ID is demanded by the LEO.

Worst case outcome is you get to call legal services plan.

Once a business says leave I leave. We can argue this all day but your scenario just made permitless carry a higher status than LTC, the permitless carry can enter if 06/07 is posted and you think you can’t. Wow is right. Kind of like someone with a commercial driver’s license can’t drive his car. Or me flying under my commercial privileges one day and part 91 the next day. Wish we had some legal professional here that could help.

 

[DoubleDuty]

The 30.05 is for unlicensed carry.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

 

[BBL]

 

[Axxe55]

 

[Renegade]

In general LTC gives you more rights than permitless carry but because you have an LTC doesn’t mean you have given up your rights to permitless carry.

If LTC gives you less rights, the PLC law is fundamentally broken and needs to be fixed or repealed ASAP.


The key phrase here (30.06) is "A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,"


Well according to 46.15, YES you do lose your LTC authority if the license is not in your possession:

(6) is carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;