Governor Perry was busy yesterday

[RandomHero]

No changes.

drats. what about the auto knife i posted above? ive been wanting one for awhile, but havent gotten one due to it being illegal. sorry for my questions, im not good with legal talk.

 

[txinvestigator]

drats. what about the auto knife i posted above? ive been wanting one for awhile, but havent gotten one due to it being illegal. sorry for my questions, im not good with legal talk.

Switchblades will not be prohibited weapons after Sept 1.

 

[Driller]

I imagine a scenario where a cop walks by your condo and notices a handgun sitting on a table as he passes by a window. The inside of the condo in my opinion is not a public place. I consider the inside of my vehicle not a public place. By adding this language it leaves the display of a handgun in a public place slightly more subjective.

Driller

 

[txinvestigator]

I imagine a scenario where a cop walks by your condo and notices a handgun sitting on a table as he passes by a window. The inside of the condo in my opinion is not a public place. I consider the inside of my vehicle not a public place. By adding this language it leaves the display of a handgun in a public place slightly more subjective.

Driller

No, it doesn't. Quite the opposite.

 

[Shorts]

Just my imagination I guess but I seem to think the purpose was to ease up on CHLers about accidental displays while holstered in public.

It has nothing to do with allowing OC in place of CC.

Private property will always be (and should be) under the discretion and control of the property owner. Businesses have the option of 30.06 and I don't see that being trumped by the bill wording. 30.06 is part of the deal, so to speak. I don't see the legislature creating such a big change in carry with such weak language that it has to be dissected with technicalities and loopholes. That doesn't make sense.

 

[Bithabus]

Private property is not just houses. Is it your position that the law will allow CHLers to OC in businesses?

This is not complicated. After Sept 1st you may OC on the authority of your CHL in a private place. This is a significant change.

 

[Bithabus]

Just my imagination I guess but I seem to think the purpose was to ease up on CHLers about accidental displays while holstered in public.

It has nothing to do with allowing OC in place of CC.

Accidental displays are not illegal now. We've discussed this in the forum a million times.

Private property will always be (and should be) under the discretion and control of the property owner.

Inorrect. You cannot allow your buddies to come over and OC on your property, under current law.

I don't see the legislature creating such a big change in carry with such weak language that it has to be dissected with technicalities and loopholes. That doesn't make sense.

There are not technicalities and loopholes. Simply, you lack a fundamental understanding of the issues.

 

[Bithabus]

I know you meant this, but you may open carry on private property THAT IS NOT a public place.

Yes of course. I figured if I said people could open carry in private places that would just add to the confusion.

 

[Shorts]

This is not complicated. After Sept 1st you may OC on the authority of your CHL in a private place. This is a significant change.

Alright. Will you give a run down how this is a significant change? (aside from being able to have OC BBQs).

 

[txinvestigator]

Alright. Will you give a run down how this is a significant change? (aside from being able to have OC BBQs).

Shorts, right now the offense is if you intentionally fail to conceal. The new standard will be intentionally display. While it may seem a distinction without a difference, the new standard is higher. Meaning it requires more to have probable cause to arrest, and is harder to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt in court.

Hope that helps

 

[inceptor]

I could be mistaken here but I see it as one step closer to OC.

 

[Shorts]

I guess I'm looking for the practical application. If folks say "This is a significant change", I'd like to know the real life scenario that pops into their mind. What is envisioned in this change?



Guess I'm dense.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Watching for further discussion/clarification of new wording on the intentional display. I don't see the big change here other than maybe clarifying for the folks that thought the seat team was going to come down on them if their handgun was accidentally seen by someone.

But obviously its opening up other discussions.


Sent from iPhone/Tapatalk

 

[RPB]

Makes a difference if you come to an open carry BBQ in my back yard so we can all show our BBQ guns (not a public place) ... before Sept 1st, even if I "gave you permission to break the law" (which I can't, even on my own property) you are criminally intentionally failing to conceal ... after Sept 1st I give you permission to open carry in my privacy fenced back yard which isn't a public place...you are legal.,,, so Police Officers I ALSO invited can't arrest you

 

[Bithabus]

Shorts, right now the offense is if you intentionally fail to conceal. The new standard will be intentionally display. While it may seem a distinction without a difference, the new standard is higher. Meaning it requires more to have probable cause to arrest, and is harder to establish proof beyond a reasonable doubt in court.

Hope that helps

No, the significant difference is that after Sept 1 intentional display in a public place in plain view of another will be unlawful. This means that in private places or in public places with nobody around a person may open carry on the authority of 411 H. Currently a CHL holder may never OC on the authority of his CHL. Baby steps I know but it opens the door for full OC.

 

[txinvestigator]

No, the significant difference is that after Sept 1 intentional display in a public place in plain view of another will be unlawful. This means that in private places or in public places with nobody around a person may open carry on the authority of 411 H. Currently a CHL holder may never OC on the authority of his CHL. Baby steps I know but it opens the door for full OC.

What are answering no to? My explanation of the difference between fail to conceal and "display"? My assertion that the former takes less to prove than the latter?

Also in response to this

This means that in private places or in public places with nobody around a person may open carry on the authority of 411 H. Currently a CHL holder may never OC on the authority of his CHL.

You are confusing even me with your vernacular. lol Can we, for purposes of discussion, refer to public places and non-public places? I ask this because some might see the term private places like any private property.

For example, a Taco Bell is private property, and some might think of it with the phrase private place. A taco bell is a public place even though it is a public place, and while open to the public open carry would not be permitted under a CHL. (I know, getting picky on words, I just see people easily becoming confused)


However, you do make a good point about the "in plain view of another" language.

 

[RPB]

True that private property can be "a public place"

It's good there are several elements the Govt would need to prove each element
old law
1) prove failed to conceal and 2) prove intent,
new law
prove 1) displayed 2) in a public place 3) in plain view of another 4) intentional

One's bedroom though a private property and normally thought to be a private place
can be a public place... (One Court case ruled a living room in a private residence with an open front door a public place ... )

An Apartment complex in Dallas near Gaston and Abrams had 1 entire bedroom wall that was a glass window facing the street and if you had your curtain open and started mooning people as they walked or drove by...

CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:


(10) exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and
is reckless about whether another may be present who will be
offended or alarmed by his act;


(4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;

If one stood just inside a doorway of a private residence aiming a shotgun at cars driving by on a public roadway and were seen doing so,
...

plenty of court cases on "public place" as it relates to various situations
I don't claim to understand them all.

but the new law is better, having more elements they'd have to prove, it appears with a backyard privacy fence, a open carry BBQ could be ok maybe... it's the "plain view of another" that might be a problem if there's more than 1 guest .... unless, it's a BBQ for blind people?? but still ... Govt would need to prove each element

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

My boss marked our shop with huge "Not open to the public" signs so his employees can smoke. So will open carry be allowed there now? He allows us to legally carry in or vehicles or on our person all ready.

 

[Bithabus]

What are answering no to? My explanation of the difference between fail to conceal and "display"?

The change from "intentionally fail to conceal" to "intentionally display" is not a significant change. What is significant is that after Sept 1st a CHL will allow people to openly carry handguns at times that conduct would otherwise be illegal. I wonder if sales of NAA minis will increase. hehe

 

[Bithabus]

True that private property can be "a public place"

It's good there are several elements the Govt would need to prove each element
old law
1) prove failed to conceal and 2) prove intent,
new law
prove 1) displayed 2) in a public place 3) in plain view of another 4) intentional

One's bedroom though a private property and normally thought to be a private place
can be a public place... (One Court case ruled a living room in a private residence with an open front door a public place ... )

An Apartment complex in Dallas near Gaston and Abrams had 1 entire bedroom wall that was a glass window facing the street and if you had your curtain open and started mooning people as they walked or drove by...

CHAPTER 42. DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND RELATED OFFENSES

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:


(10) exposes his anus or genitals in a public place and
is reckless about whether another may be present who will be
offended or alarmed by his act;


(4) abuses or threatens a person in a public place in an obviously offensive manner;

If one stood just inside a doorway of a private residence aiming a shotgun at cars driving by on a public roadway and were seen doing so,
...

plenty of court cases on "public place" as it relates to various situations
I don't claim to understand them all.

but the new law is better, having more elements they'd have to prove, it appears with a backyard privacy fence, a open carry BBQ could be ok maybe... it's the "plain view of another" that might be a problem if there's more than 1 guest .... unless, it's a BBQ for blind people?? but still ... Govt would need to prove each element

Don't forget that PC 46.035 is irrelevant when you are carrying on your own property.