Gun Control: International Small Arms Treaty to be signed 27Jul2012

[macshooter]

I would hope there would be such public outrage that politicians would scramble to take action against it. But I don't count on that. I don't think the people of this country have the guts anymore to defend their freedoms. But I think if it will happen anywhere it would be in Texas. Texas has always been a good place to make a last stand.

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

I sent letters to our senators. Thinking it cant affect us is a joke. Our Goverment couldnt care less about us. Besides obummer and his cronies SUPPORT the UN in all of this. He wouldnt fight against anything to help us. You may think Im stupid for doing something about it, but if something happens I know that I tried to do something.

I've sent letters to all the senators at least 3 or 4 times in the last year, and signed idk how many petitions. I really don't think it matters. Obama could care less what we think or how we feel. He's a communist. In fact, I found this pro communist forum the other day, kinda like a facebook for commies. I was reading some of the comments in there, and it is of no surprise that these people REALLY support Obama. They call him "The Obama", and say things like, "thinking is bad, we don't want people thinking for themselves". The way they talk it sounds like they are all Europeans. I'll try to find the link I'm talking about and post it.

 

[Stumpy]

Yeah, but Federal law can't contradict the Constitution. There would have to be an amendment.

Of course this is only theoretically correct. In practice the Constitution is just something pissed off people point to that has no real meaning any more.

+1

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Yeah I think people either fail to realize, or just don't want to accept the fact that the Constitution is not the law these people are following, which SHOULD mean they be impeached, imprisoned, or worse, but when you have nobody to enforce it, they can pretty much do whatever they want. Really, who's going to stop them? Sounds like rules of war if you ask me. It would take nothing less than a war to get the Constitution back to where it once was, I just don't see it happening any other way. And not only a war, a war in which the victors were those who give 2 shits about the Constitution, an even more slim chance since the others are the ones with the detonators and nukes. I personally will always see the Constitution as the supreme law of the land.

 

[FlashBang]

Many years from now our grand children's children's children will sit around the campfire in their government run ghettos and tell stories of their brave great great great grandfathers, who fought against the troops when they came to take away their firearms and their rights; and were defeated. They will pass on the stories of a thing that once existed, a document called the Constitution. And they will wonder why others did not standup as their ancestors did to try to preserve it; and they will weep.

 

[Wabbit69]

Just to make sure we are all on the same page:
1) There is currently no treaty to sign.
2) A month long conference just began which ends on 7/27 to determine the language in the treaty.
3) While there have been plenty of emails circulating about Hillary or Obama signing the treaty on the 27th, there still needs to be a treaty to sign.
4) While it may go in one ear and othe another, congress did sent a letter to Obama regarding the content of the Treaty: http://kelly.house.gov/sites/kelly.house.gov/files/ATT Letter.pdf

Folks, read the letter in the link. Congress has pretty much already told POTUS "Not ONLY NO.....". So there's that. As far as reducing the supply of small arms, there have to be enough member nations that produce to sign the treaty, which isn't event written yet, then the UN has to figure out a way to enforce it. Hmmm....off the top of my head, I can't think of a single thing that the UN has successfully enforced.

This thing affecting us is about as likely as me dying in a phone booth suffocated by a pair of 55 DD's .

BTW, Thank you, Rum Runner, for taking the time to do some independent critical research.

 

[kabob]

Folks, the only thing I'd be worried about concerning the potential ATT is supply and availability. I'm an active member over on the HKPro.com boards and we're already feeling the affects of tighter restrictions and controls over international arms sales with H&K firearms and products. Heckler & Koch is first and foremost a military and law enforcement supplier with a side business in civilian sales. Just recently the German government raided their corporate office for evidence of illegal arms trade to banned nations as rumors/reports had come up that H&K weapons were showing up in tinpot African dictatorships.

Since then, the supplies for certain LE/Military-designated parts and accessories (chiefly UMP parts and magazines) have become scarce as H&K is now trying harder to limit them from filtering into the civilian market. Even though the items are perfectly legal for import into the US (where then asinine state gun laws take over for half the country and ban them), they have no choice as the German government breathes down their neck. They've already discontinued sale of the SL8-6, the civvie "sporting" model of the G36 that's popular to convert back to semi-auto G36 formation.

Something like the ATT passing will see foreign arms manufacturers and importers give up on the United States market. it'd definitely be a sad day for me as all my firearms are German and all, save one, were imported from Germany.

 

[jsimmons]

I'm sure Obama wouldn't agree to it unless and until he wins the election. Then, all bets are off, regardless of what Congress puts in a letter.

 

[Wabbit69]

Folks, the only thing I'd be worried about concerning the potential ATT is supply and availability. I'm an active member over on the HKPro.com boards and we're already feeling the affects of tighter restrictions and controls over international arms sales with H&K firearms and products. Heckler & Koch is first and foremost a military and law enforcement supplier with a side business in civilian sales. Just recently the German government raided their corporate office for evidence of illegal arms trade to banned nations as rumors/reports had come up that H&K weapons were showing up in tinpot African dictatorships.

ince then, the supplies for certain LE/Military-designated parts and accessories (chiefly UMP parts and magazines) have become scarce as H&K is now trying harder to limit them from filtering into the civilian market. Even though the items are perfectly legal for import into the US (where then asinine state gun laws take over for half the country and ban them), they have no choice as the German government breathes down their neck. They've already discontinued sale of the SL8-6, the civvie "sporting" model of the G36 that's popular to convert back to semi-auto G36 formation.

Something like the ATT passing will see foreign arms manufacturers and importers give up on the United States market. it'd definitely be a sad day for me as all my firearms are German and all, save one, were imported from Germany.

After a little reading, it seems that H&K is in hot water for allegedly selling arms to some Mexican states that the German goverment listed as "terrorist" nations, as well as bribes. I don't know if it's true or not. I don't think that it's out of the realm of possibilty that they legitimately sold them to the Federales, who promptly gave them to someone the Germans didn't agree with, for a "fee". I also noted that one of the German government's "tipsters" is a former H&K employee working for a competitor. In other words, the German government doesn't exactly have the proverbial "smoking gun", AFAIK. I think the African Tinpot guns you refer to are the G36's that showed up in Libya, that were supposed to be sold to Egypt. Personally, I don't think its out of the realm of possiblity that Libyians got them from buddies across the border.

My point is that the heat that H&K is under, as well as the problems that you're experiencing with getting cheap H&K parts, are not a result of any UN action. They are a result of a combination of Germany's own internal law (and probably politics), as well as H&K's business decision to market to LE/Military, and not to civillians. You're always gonna have a hard time buying something from someone that really doesn't care to be your supplier.

 

[macshooter]

According to Morris if the treaty is signed, but not brought up for a vote in the senate and not renounced by the prez, then it has the force of law. He says that's what they plan to do since they won't be able to get it through the senate.

Hillary’s End Run On Gun Control – Dick Morris TV: Lunch Alert! at DickMorris.com

 

[Wabbit69]

According to Morris if the treaty is signed, but not brought up for a vote in the senate and not renounced by the prez, then it has the force of law. He says that's what they plan to do since they won't be able to get it through the senate.

Hillary’s End Run On Gun Control – Dick Morris TV: Lunch Alert! at DickMorris.com

This is the first line from Dick Morris's Wiki info:

"Dick Morris (born November 28, 1948) is an American political author and commentator who previously worked as a pollster, political campaign consultant, and general political consultant."

That's all I needed to read to decide how much credibility to give him. Just sayin'.

 

[kabob]

My point is that the heat that H&K is under, as well as the problems that you're experiencing with getting cheap H&K parts, are not a result of any UN action. They are a result of a combination of Germany's own internal law (and probably politics), as well as H&K's business decision to market to LE/Military, and not to civillians. You're always gonna have a hard time buying something from someone that really doesn't care to be your supplier.

I didn't say that scenario had anything to do with the UN. But a treaty that further restricts and regulates the international arms trade will affect civilian sales imports in the US, and I was using using H&K's reaction to government scrutiny as an example.

 

[Wabbit69]

I didn't say that scenario had anything to do with the UN. But a treaty that further restricts and regulates the international arms trade will affect civilian sales imports in the US, and I was using using H&K's reaction to government scrutiny as an example.

I'll concede that it might have a short-term impact, but it appears that it would have to depend on a lot of "if's". If they come up with a treaty the some folks can agree with. If small-arms member producing member nations sign it. If said nations return it to thier respective governments for ratification. If the UN can find a way for meaningful enforcement. So, in the highly unlikely event that all these come into play, what you'll find is that if a foreign company wishes to market their small arms to the US, they'll simply set up manufacturing facilities over here and sell them under license.
The supply will simply follow the demand. Problem solved.

 

[Vaquero]

I'll concede that it might have a short-term impact, but it appears that it would have to depend on a lot of "if's". If they come up with a treaty the some folks can agree with. If small-arms member producing member nations sign it. If said nations return it to thier respective governments for ratification. If the UN can find a way for meaningful enforcement. So, in the highly unlikely event that all these come into play, what you'll find is that if a foreign company wishes to market their small arms to the US, they'll simply set up manufacturing facilities over here and sell them under license.
The supply will simply follow the demand. Problem solved.

I honestly hope to GOD that you are right. I just don't see it "ending" that positively. Let's hope I'm wrong, just not "dead wrong".

 

[macshooter]

This is the first line from Dick Morris's Wiki info:

"Dick Morris (born November 28, 1948) is an American political author and commentator who previously worked as a pollster, political campaign consultant, and general political consultant."

That's all I needed to read to decide how much credibility to give him. Just sayin'.

All of that is still true, but I don't see how that discredits him.

Here let me help you

Now that we have that out of the way...

If the treaty gets signed it could be a problem if obama gets elected again, unless we take the senate and force a vote on it.