Gun Control: International Small Arms Treaty to be signed 27Jul2012

[txinvestigator]

Guys SLOW DOWN and think. A treaty has no affecgt of law INSIDE the US. I know what the Constitution says, and it means the US must act, in relation to other nations, with treaties as it does its own federal law. it does NOT mean treaties hold the force of law WITHIN a country.

Civics 101.

 

[txinvestigator]

Actually, they can affect our internal laws according to the Constitution. When a treaty is ratified, it becomes part of Federal Law.

In regards to our acts WITH OTHER COUNTRIES. IT DOES NOT MAKE OR AFFECT OUR INTERNAL LAWS.

 

[txinvestigator]

Here is what the Supreme Court had to say about Treaties that contradict our Constitution....

" The issue of whether treaties overwhelm the Constitution was specifically considered by the US Supreme Court in the case of Reid v. Covert, 354 U.S. 1 (1957). The Court ruled:

. . .no agreement with a foreign nation can confer on Congress or any other branch of the Government power which is free from the restraints of the Constitution. . . .

This court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the constitution over a treaty.
This Court has also repeatedly taken the position that an Act of Congress, which must comply with the Constitution, is on a full parity with a treaty, and that when a statute which is subsequent in time is inconsistent with a treaty, the statute to the extent of conflict renders the treaty null. It would be completely anomalous to say that a treaty need not comply with the Constitution when such an agreement can be overridden by a statute that must conform to that instrument.
​

Note that the Court held that acts of Congress are legally equal to treaties. Acts must comply with the Constitution, so treaties, being on “full parity” with acts, must also comply. The Court continued,

No agreement with a foreign nation can confer power on Congress or any other branch of government, which is free from the restraints of the constitution.
​

Chief Justice of the United States Joseph Story wrote in the 19th century,

A power given by the Constitution cannot be construed to authorize a destruction of other powers given in the same instrument. . . . A treaty to change the organization of the Government, or to annihilate its sovereignty, to overturn its republican form, or to deprive it of its constitutional powers, would be void; because it would destroy what it was designed merely to fulfill, the will of the people."

Here is some reading about Treaties...
Treaties and Appointment of Officers - U.S. Constitution: Article II​

Great post, but be prepared to be ignored. Folks who don't want to know the truth and like getting all worked up just will.

 

[M. Sage]

In regards to our acts WITH OTHER COUNTRIES. IT DOES NOT MAKE OR AFFECT OUR INTERNAL LAWS.

Yes they can. Read what J. Fred posted again. Treaties become Federal Law when they're ratified, and like Federal Law would have to have their Constitutionality fought out in court after being ratified.

 

[kabob]

sigh

treaties do not affect internal laws of nations.

Thank. You. Nice to know not everybody that supports the 2nd Amendment has to go off the deep end and Chicken Little everything.

 

[FlashBang]

Treaties don't amount to squat.... just ask native Americans.

 

[Dreamliner787]

There are still many things that has to happen before this goes through and impact all of us. Unfortunately who anymore really have confidence that politicians in Washington will do the right thing. This is one of the areas where we need to fight relentlessly, keep pressure on those who are curently in office and change out those who are not representing our values in order to protect our rights and freedom. How many on this forum are actually NRA members and how many are not? I think probally a good number are not NRA members but they should be. This is can be a good motivator for them to join the cause and not just sit on the sidelines.

 

[stdreb27]

For all you guys saying, we should be safe, I give you this.

We signed a treaty that says we have to use low sulfur diesel on ships. It isn't ratified by congress. But the EPA is taking the regulations agreed to in the treaty and implementing them...

http://news.yahoo.com/alaska-sues-block-low-sulfur-fuel-requirement-ships-025940611.html

 

[rlw454]

vote

 

[Whiskey_Rocka_Rolla]

Here's what I have to say, when people say that an international treaty has no effect on domestic law. Who is defending our domestic sovereignty? Not the president. Who is putting our president in check? Not congress. So basically, who stands between us and the UN? Nobody. We all know what the law "says", but it also says many things that seem to have zero true effect in today's world. So why would a UN gun ban be any different? It's not that this administration is "above" the law, it's that they have made their own new set of "laws", and are following THOSE laws. Who is truly enforcing the Constitution? NOBODY.

What it will come down to, is how bad do Americans want to keep their freedom. Idk what needs to happen, but we (meaning any Constitutional freedom loving American), better come up with a plan, and quick. Idk about you guys, but I'm making it a point to plaster some sobering truth about Obama on my FB page every single day up until the election. It's my 1st Amendment right, isn't it? I mean really, why would people NOT be doing that? Because they are worried someone might "come and get them?" Well if you are worried about that, then that means they'll probably be "coming" anyway, in due time. So now is our only chance to get the word spread. FB is one of the tools these nut jobs used that was so effective in getting them into office, and it will be the only way to spread the message to mainstream America, that we need to get the frauds out.

 

[AKM]

I sent letters to our senators. Thinking it cant affect us is a joke. Our Goverment couldnt care less about us. Besides obummer and his cronies SUPPORT the UN in all of this. He wouldnt fight against anything to help us. You may think Im stupid for doing something about it, but if something happens I know that I tried to do something.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Its been a while. I've been missing your salutes!

There are some good folks at both the NSA and FBI that do their job well, but there's also some that think their bureaucracies are above the law because they "protect" us.
I join you in saluting those individuals.

SIGH.....Here we go again! MY blood pressure is about 118/70 depending on what I'm doing at the moment. I just don't give a shxt about much any more and this.........doesn't even make the friggin' list. Worry if you want to. I won't.

A while back, I stated that I want to be FIRST IN LINE when the UN comes to confiscate our property. I'll re-up that request right now. I don't want the bastards claiming they were tired when they got to me!

OH...I almost forgot my salute to NSA/FBI.........

Here is my raised middle finger to all of the bums who think they are above the law and entitled to intimidate their fellow Americans who are abiding by the law. FXXX You!

Now I shall go play with my little dog Jake and enjoy the freedoms that they work so hard to curtail.

To my fellow TGT members, once again, thanks for allowing this little detour.

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Flash
art credit: AKMike Thanks!

 

[AKM]

I was looking for my finger the other day and couldnt find it....

 

[AKM]

[h=6]Mike Howse
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[/h]UN...

Added to iy looked un-finished lol

 

[Wabbit69]

Urban legend.
snopes.com: Small Arms Treaty

 

[txinvestigator]

Yes they can. Read what J. Fred posted again. Treaties become Federal Law when they're ratified, and like Federal Law would have to have their Constitutionality fought out in court after being ratified.

Yes, they become federal law, IN REGARDS TO OUR ACTIONS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES.

 

[macshooter]

Suppose the treaty says that in order to ensure that no small arms are being illegally exported to other countries, treaty members must have all small arms registered so that they can be tracked. We would have to change our laws within the states to comply with the treaty. That's exactly what they will try do.

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Yeah, but if we agree to provide documentation on the full chain of custody when making an international arms sale that necessitates a registry, for at least a subset of the firearms manufactured here.

If they're going operationalize that (and keep our rights) they would need to make sure only commercial arms manufactured specifically to fulfill international arms orders are tracked. Some UN parties were discussing tracking EVERYONE's guns so they can verify origin internationally. I guess we'll see what the treaty language turns out to be soon enough.

Edit: macshooter you beat me to it!

 

[steve-o]

So according to snopes we have nothing to be worried about as far as the 2nd Amendment being affected, this doesn't make me feel better about this, it still doesn't pass the smell test. If this thing gets signed by the potus and ratified in a lame duck senate, could we see immediate affects from this as far as foreign weapons (glocks and others) being blocked from import?

 

[Mexican_Hippie]

Suppose the treaty says that in order to ensure that no small arms are being illegally exported to other countries, treaty members must have all small arms registered so that they can be tracked. We would have to change our laws within the states to comply with the treaty. That's exactly what they will try do.

I'm not a big RIck Perry fanboy, but he would not comply with that. I guarantee it.