Gun without a safety?

[cmg88]

A great and pertinent question. I will always prefer more safety in my handguns and my wife does as well. As a Marine in 'Nam unfortunately I witnessed two terrible accidents with a .45 by others. They carried 24/7 and even though trained and experienced, accidents happened. The worst one was during monsoon season late one night and the pouring rain made it difficult for even an emergency Medevac. Knee was blown apart. Some sounds and screams you never forget. Anyway, I swore for many years that I'd never ever have a handgun and damn sure not a .45. However, I eased up a tad a few years ago, began studying and got a S&W EZ Shield 9mm and insisted on safety features. It has a thumb lever safety along with a loaded chamber indicator on top plus grip safety to boot. I realize most handguns don't have all that but at least a thumb lever is a must for me and I verify it works at the range. My wife has a Taurus TX 22 with a thumb safety lever as well. It takes only a fraction of a second to thumb the safety before firing which we do often between mags. Practice is very key. Good luck. Here is my 9mm with all its safety features.

Thanks for chiming in, the thread was seeming a little one-sided

 

[Axxe55]

 

[zackmars]

My carry guns are all DA/SA, no manual safeties. I like the extra amount of pull weight, while not leaving the gun in a state where i can not get it to fire. Its a great street trigger.

The holster is one of, if not the most important 'thing' that determines how safe the gun is, a poor holster choice can cause the gun to fall out, let debris catch the trigger, manipulate controls, position your trigger finger on the trigger during the draw, or even pull the trigger itself. We've all seen Tex Grebner, he did that with a 1911, hardly an unsafe pistol, and serpas have caused lots of ND's and have been banned from lots of ranges, competitions, and shooting schools for that reason.

 

[Sam7sf]

Thanks for chiming in, the thread was seeming a little one-sided

It’s a gun forum. Most of us take our handling seriously. Of course you’re going to get the responses you got.

Ultimately what you’re looking for only you can find.

Read, learn, train, shoot, all of it has to be natural like taking a shit.

 

[Sam7sf]

My carry guns are all DA/SA, no manual safeties. I like the extra amount of pull weight, while not leaving the gun in a state where i can not get it to fire. Its a great street trigger.

I have thought about this a lot and da/sa is ultimately the safest set up.

 

[m5215]

I converted just about all my Beretta 92's (with the exception of my vintage ones) to the decocker-only configuration. When I buy an autoloader I always look for a model without a manual safety.

 

[zackmars]

I have thought about this a lot and da/sa is ultimately the safest set up.

I don't know if I'd call it the safest, there are lots of different triggers out there, DAO, DA/SA, HK LEM, Sig DAK are all extremely safe, though i think DAO and DA/SA make for a better shooter

 

[gll]

I have thought about this a lot and da/sa is ultimately the safest set up.

The only thing is, the transition sucks...

IMO, a DA/SA, should only have a decocker...

And, if a DA/SA is really the safest, how is it safer than a DAO, which is arguably safer because there is no transition confusion?

 

[Sam7sf]

The only thing is, the transition sucks...

IMO, a DA/SA, should only have a decocker...

And, if a DA/SA is really the safest, how is it safer than a DAO, which is arguably safer because there is no transition confusion?

True. You’re logic is sound. My preference spoke.

 

[zackmars]

The only thing is, the transition sucks...

IMO, a DA/SA, should only have a decocker...

And, if a DA/SA is really the safest, how is it safer than a DAO, which is arguably safer because there is no transition confusion?

Agreed on only having a decocker.

However, if the transition from DA to SA is a problem, you need to practice more. The transition is not hard to master, it is simply applying fundamentals

 

[Sam7sf]

My two carry guns are a sig 229 and an xd mod2 service. I like the 229 for what we just discussed.

I trust that xd very much. With muscle memory combined with a grip safety and it’s trigger safety, and it’s a quality gun; I often recommend it to people who are shy about carrying loaded with a striker gun

 

[gll]

True. You’re logic is sound. My preference spoke.

Only as far as that argument goes, because the negative of any DA is the long hard pull on the first (most important) shot, regardless of what pull follows...

Agreed on only having a decocker.

However, if the transition from DA to SA is a problem, you need to practice more. The transition is not hard to master, it is simply applying fundamentals

It sucks because there is a transition, not because it can't be mastered...

 

[zackmars]

Only as far as that argument goes, because the negative of any DA is the long hard pull on the first (most important) shot, regardless of what pull follows...


It sucks because there is a transition, not because it can't be mastered...

There's going to be downsides to a trigger, SAO, DAO, DA/SA, LEM, DAK all give you something the others won't, and all come with quirks.

As someone who shoots nearly exclusively DA/SA, there is no difference between my DA and SA shots, if the DA shot and the transition is a problem, that means the shooter needs to do some practice, just like someone who can't shoot anything other than a 1911 well, or constantly shoots Glocks low and left.

 

[retired deputy]

depends on the platform.

 

[SARGE67]

Thanks for chiming in, the thread was seeming a little one-sided

You have every right to ask questions, is how we all get info and ideas to make our own informed choices we can live comfortably with. Best wishes

 

[Tnhawk]

All firearms have a safety, your brain.

As previously stated - some have no safety, even with an external safety on the firearm.

 

[rotor]

Let's look at God's gun. the 1911. Two safety's. My wife loves her Sig 320 but for range use, not carry. No trigger or lever safety.
I carry with one in the chamber, pocket holster with a heavy trigger pull and no other safety but holstered and heavy trigger pull. I have guns with safety's and never use the safety except for my 1911. If I have the choice of with or without a safety I buy with and never use it. I guess for some guns if one is trying to re-holster a safety can help. I do not carry any gun with a safety on and don't carry my 1911. One can argue that a safety may accidentally be put on and that is true but to err is human and that may happen but that's why we train.

 

[Axxe55]

The best safety any gun has is learning how to operate it safely.

1. ALWAYS KEEP YOUR FIREARM POINTED IN A SAFE DIRECTION.


2. TREAT ALL FIREARMS AS IF THEY WERE LOADED.


3. KEEP YOUR TRIGGER FINGER OUTSIDE THE GUARD AND OFF OF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY TO FIRE.​

4. BE CERTAIN OF YOUR TARGET, YOUR LINE OF FIRE, AND WHAT LIES BEYOND YOUR TARGET.​

5. ALWAYS WEAR APPROPRIATE EYE AND EAR PROTECTION WHEN SHOOTING AND MAINTAINING YOUR FIREARM.​

 

[candcallen]

My brain - yeah I'll buy that. As for someone else's brain - I am none too sure about that. That's why so many shoot themselves or others unintentionally. Then again, anyone's brain can have a brain fart - even mine.

Like manual safety mechanisms, the choice to use it is the operators.

I dont trust others safe handling of firearms around me. I always watch as my safety is really my responsibility.

It was a struggle to train with others in room clearing entry and tactical formations and trusting over watch. Never got comfortable. I was always highly alert when running quals or helping other instructors. I've seen tactical team members have ND in high stress events and other Instructors shoot themselves.

Like the saying goes, over familiarity breeds contempt.....as does lack of respect for the tools of the death dealing trades. You can kill yourself or someone else in a heartbeat of a brain fart.

In the end, even the multiple safeties all require the use and engagement of ones brain. None of it works without full engagement of your mind. Depending on manual safeties will get you killed.

How many died from model 700 issues? Sticking mag safeties. Firing pin and other drop safety not working or failing? Shit sigs going off in ones holster just sitting there.

Full engagement of ones brain following safe handling practices is the safety.

 

[m5215]

Only as far as that argument goes, because the negative of any DA is the long hard pull on the first (most important) shot, regardless of what pull follows...

With proper fine-tuning of an autoloader that long, hard DA pull can be greatly mitigated. For example, the Beretta 92's stock 20# hammer spring makes for a heavy DA pull but change out the stock hammer with a lighter skeletonized one and replace the stock hammer spring with a lighter 14# one and you get a much lighter DA pull that is much closer to the SA pull. This change to the hammer and hammer spring makes the whole DA vs SA concern a non-issue for just about anyone using the Beretta 92. I have done similar changes to the CZ-75. Most stock autoloaders with heavy trigger pulls can be significantly improved otherwise it will take extra effort to master them with their stock heavy triggers.