Ham Radio vs CB for disaster communication

[Tnhawk]

The way to program the Baofengs is through a program called "Chirp". I don't know of anyway to program those through a browser.

I purchased a program from RT Systems although Chirp can be downloaded without cost on the internet. It would be helpful to find a local Ham club to learn information not on the Technician Exam. Most Ham clubs are happy to assist new hams in the learning process.

 

[lonestardiver]

RT systems makes good software, windows based. You pretty much have to use their cables though. Good thing is some cables work for different radios. It takes a little research to figure out what other radios work with the same cables. In some cases it is the difference in distance between the pins on the headphone and speaker jacks.

 

[TheDan]

I am in the lake Travis area (Lago Vista) north of Austin and I was all prepped up for the Tech license when Covid hit. Have not found a way to take a test yet but admittedly I have not checked in months and would have to study up again. Not too good with the schematics parts, understand the FCC parts as pretty much common sense. Have 4 Naofangs but when I turn them on (2 have improved antennas) have not heard a single word but my altitude is 720’ with hills (Lakeway) to the south. I need to take the test real bad and find a club member who can teach me what one needs to know, not the test. Have the programming cable but I use Safari, can switch to other browsers for programming I think but really need someone local to show me how to access repeaters etc. Do not care about the upper level tricks-texting/internet. Just may need to communicate. Looking to learn. Heck, I do not know the questions much less the answers.
Mark

Chirp can pull the information for local repeaters and program them into your radio. Get Chirp here: https://trac.chirp.danplanet.com/chirp_next/next-20230619/

Good video on how to use it:



I haven't used any of the repeaters around Lago so don't know how active they are. Depending on how the hills are shading you, you might be able to reach the Georgetown repeater, tho. That one is pretty active.

 

[PGB777]

Depending on the disaster, you will need electricity for both...

Absolutely.

 

[TXAZ]

I expect, in a serious wide area incident, having any license, isn’t going to make a hill of beans difference for most people, much less regulators.
And there is a FCC regulation that effectively says that.
(Yes I’m a licensed HAM)

 

[MountainGirl]

So after yesterday's journey down the Ham rabbit hole, I checked out using CB for a listening only base station...and now I'm gonna dive into learning about GMRS.

I sure appreciate all you guys, and the knowledge you share.


ETA: Well, that didn't take long. GMRS line of sight wont work when you live in the middle of a forest. The search continues. Fun stuff!

 

[no2gates]

So after yesterday's journey down the Ham rabbit hole, I checked out using CB for a listening only base station...and now I'm gonna dive into learning about GMRS.

I sure appreciate all you guys, and the knowledge you share.


ETA: Well, that didn't take long. GMRS line of sight wont work when you live in the middle of a forest. The search continues. Fun stuff!

What range distance are you looking to get?

For SHTF local communications under 5 miles without a repeater, a handheld 2 meter radio would suffice, but if you're looking to possibly talk to people in the next state or country, you'll need something like a HF rig with about 100 watts of power, plus some type of outside antenna.

 

[MountainGirl]

What range distance are you looking to get?

For SHTF local communications under 5 miles without a repeater, a handheld 2 meter radio would suffice, but if you're looking to possibly talk to people in the next state or country, you'll need something like a HF rig with about 100 watts of power, plus some type of outside antenna.

Ok. Please promise not to laugh. We're not looking to transmit.

Suddenly, there's no internet, no cable, no phones; maybe grid power, likely not.
Whatever happened was not an EMP/CME event... so if Houston got nuked, we're outside the EMP area from that.

How do we find out what happened? <-- That's what I'm trying to solve.

All I can think of is radio... Commercial broadcast, HAM, CB, Shortwave... so I'm exploring each of those to see what might work best for us. Regular radio would be fine if it was a very localized event (KJAS out of Jasper comes in good) but if whatever it was is more wide-spread... maybe the nearest source of information is Tulsa. Would over the air AM or FM be better for long-range seeking? Or is there a better way to do this?

After we figure that out - another consideration is the lay of the land here. Picture a mile-radius giant donut-shaped thicket forest with a cleared 2-acre hole in the middle. That's where our place is; in that hole. Great for privacy; sux for reception. Need to figure out antenna also...especially if our terrain works better with one type of radio system over another.

All thoughts welcome.

 

[lonestardiver]

So after yesterday's journey down the Ham rabbit hole, I checked out using CB for a listening only base station...and now I'm gonna dive into learning about GMRS.

I sure appreciate all you guys, and the knowledge you share.


ETA: Well, that didn't take long. GMRS line of sight wont work when you live in the middle of a forest. The search continues. Fun stuff!

For listening only purposes, a scanner might be a good start especially for VHF/UHF.
You can listen to ham repeaters, GMRS, FRS, MURS fairly cheaply as well as fairly close to you point to point communications on those bands. You don’t need an expensive scanner to do that.

CB and HF ham bands are typically not in the frequency range of many scanners though.

A cheap CB is good for listening, though the better the antenna the better your chance of hearing things.

CB’s don’t have the network that there used to be back in the 70’s.
If you are going to get a half decent CB, get one with SSB (Single Side Band). Those operate at a higher power and give more options, think of every channel as a center point, adding your upper side band and lower side band takes you from 40 channels to 120 channels (putting it simplistically).

From personal experience in the deep woods, 2m and up tend to be attenuated by the foliage. 6m on down tends to do better.
This was observed during the Columbia shuttle recovery effort I participated in. It was the ham radio operators that provided all the communications between entities that made the operation work. We embedded a amateur radio operator with every team that was out as well as with each entity (LEO, Medics, NASA, FBI, Fire, etc) and coordinated communications for the entire recovery effort.

 

[Txhighlander]

Just because you do not want to transmit doesn't mean that you shouldn't set yourself up to.

 

[lonestardiver]

Ok. Please promise not to laugh. We're not looking to transmit.

Suddenly, there's no internet, no cable, no phones; maybe grid power, likely not.
Whatever happened was not an EMP/CME event... so if Houston got nuked, we're outside the EMP area from that.

How do we find out what happened?
All I can think of is radio... Commercial broadcast, HAM, CB, Shortwave... so I'm exploring each of those to see what might work best for us. Regular radio would be fine if it was a very localized event (KJAS out of Jasper comes in good) but if whatever it was is more wide-spread... maybe the nearest source of information is Tulsa. Would over the air AM or FM be better for long-range seeking? Or is there a better way to do this?

After we figure that out - another consideration is the lay of the land here. Picture a mile-radius giant donut-shaped thicket forest with a cleared 2-acre hole in the middle. That's where our place is; in that hole. Great for privacy; sux for reception. Need to figure out antenna also...especially if our terrain works better with one type of radio system over another.

All thoughts welcome.

Get your antenna as high as possible is your best solution.
AM broadcast bands (lower in frequency) travel farther. FM broadcast bands don’t travel as far.

For AM broadcast and SW (short wave), a long wire as high as possible should give you pretty good reception. Those may be your best options. Look for a battery operated SW, MW, LW, FM receiver. That will cover your broadcast bands and much if not all of the HF ham bands. That should give you coverage of sources of info you are looking for.

 

[MountainGirl]

Just because you do not want to transmit doesn't mean that you shouldn't set yourself up to.

I understand. And, one of the reasons we're considering CB - is yes, it's not as widespread now like it used to be, but I'm guessing if all the things that 'replaced' it (internet, cellphones, etc) suddenly go away - there might be some local good ol boys that hung on to theirs from back in the day, and might dig them out again. So, along with having a good receiver for listening, CB might be a good 'local' comms tool for us here in the thicket - if I can get the antenna set-up to work with that too.

 

[1911'S 4 Me]

I understand. And, one of the reasons we're considering CB - is yes, it's not as widespread now like it used to be, but I'm guessing if all the things that 'replaced' it (internet, cellphones, etc) suddenly go away - there might be some local good ol boys that hung on to theirs from back in the day, and might dig them out again. So, along with having a good receiver for listening, CB might be a good 'local' comms tool for us here in the thicket - if I can get the antenna set-up to work with that too.

I would suspect there is a good number of cb's still in use in your area. From the number of truckers and especially log haulers up and down 190 that still use cb's.

 

[Txhighlander]

I understand. And, one of the reasons we're considering CB - is yes, it's not as widespread now like it used to be, but I'm guessing if all the things that 'replaced' it (internet, cellphones, etc) suddenly go away - there might be some local good ol boys that hung on to theirs from back in the day, and might dig them out again. So, along with having a good receiver for listening, CB might be a good 'local' comms tool for us here in the thicket - if I can get the antenna set-up to work with that too.

I still have a few myself left hanging around in a box or 2

 

[MountainGirl]

....

From personal experience in the deep woods, 2m and up tend to be attenuated by the foliage. 6m on down tends to do better.

Sorry, I dont understand what you're saying here - could you try again, please?

I would suspect there is a good number of cb's still in use in your area. From the number of truckers and especially log haulers up and down 190 that still use cb's.

Right! I hadn't thought about that - and they go past our place all the time; they're logging back in somewhere.

 

[vmax]

This thread got me to thinking and I went ahead and got my GRMS license
Now the whole family can use the GRMS frequencies which will be good for short range
I might even put up GRMS repeater on my land.

 

[PhulesAu]

The higher the Freq. The easier it is to be blocked , trees buildings whatvever.

 

[lonestardiver]

Sorry, I dont understand what you're saying here - could you try again, please?



Right! I hadn't thought about that - and they go past our place all the time; they're logging back in somewhere.

The absorption (or blockage) of the radio signal in the woods by the foliage.

Different materials do different things to different frequencies. The higher frequencies, such as 2m, 70cm, GMRS, FRS tend to be blocked more by dense trees and brush.

GMRS and FRS are close to the 70cm Ham band. They are all UHF frequencies.

Building an antenna for CB is not hard. The easiest can be a couple of CB antennas in a special bracket. For this I’d use 102” whip antennas. For reception only, a single 102” whip is fine.

As a note, antenna length is related to the frequency in use. The lower in frequency the longer the antenna. An antenna of the proper length receives the intended band much better than some random length. It’s similar to guitar strings in some way. The thickness of the string relates to the sound frequency. In radio, it works in a similar manner. Length is easier to accommodate to keep the diameter of the antenna wire smaller. Shorter antennas with thicker elements work the same way as a guitar string (to a point). This is just a simple view of it.

 

[lonestardiver]

The higher the Freq. The easier it is to be blocked , trees buildings whatvever.

Public safety went with 800Mhz radios for use in cities since they penetrate building better.

 

[PhulesAu]

BUT in East Texas pine Forrest it ain't that good.
As experienced while recovering shuttle wreckage.