Ham Radio vs CB for disaster communication

[lonestardiver]

BUT in East Texas pine Forrest it ain't that good.
As experienced while recovering shuttle wreckage.

Exactly. 2m worked moderately well there.
The Amateur Radio operators were called in since every agency had different radios, frequencies, etc. Even if they were to be in the same band, those radios are not field programmable.

We brought in a repeater just for the Hams to use. There were areas where 2m was limited and you had to get out of the trees to make contact with command.

6m would have been better, but very few 6m handhelds exist.

We train for these sorts of things and understand the limitations as well as the need to improve your location to get a workable signal out.

Knowing how to relay information from one to to command and back where conditions didn’t permit direct contact is important.

 

[MountainGirl]

The absorption (or blockage) of the radio signal in the woods by the foliage.

Different materials do different things to different frequencies. The higher frequencies, such as 2m, 70cm, GMRS, FRS tend to be blocked more by dense trees and brush.

GMRS and FRS are close to the 70cm Ham band. They are all UHF frequencies.

Building an antenna for CB is not hard. The easiest can be a couple of CB antennas in a special bracket. For this I’d use 102” whip antennas. For reception only, a single 102” whip is fine.

As a note, antenna length is related to the frequency in use. The lower in frequency the longer the antenna. An antenna of the proper length receives the intended band much better than some random length. It’s similar to guitar strings in some way. The thickness of the string relates to the sound frequency. In radio, it works in a similar manner. Length is easier to accommodate to keep the diameter of the antenna wire smaller. Shorter antennas with thicker elements work the same way as a guitar string (to a point). This is just a simple view of it.

Got it, thanks; your help is most appreciated..
Now I just need to figure out the components that will work best, and make a plan.

 

[Axxe55]

Got it, thanks; your help is most appreciated..
Now I just need to figure out the components that will work best, and make a plan.

two cans and some string might work!

 

[OldChap]

It all depends on what the situation is. Just some thoughts:

VHF / UHF radios operating above 50Mhz are limited in range to line of sight or a bit more. The only solution is repeaters, which are, as far as I know, limited to Ham radio. This includes all non-Ham radios like GMRS etc.

HF radios operate at frequencies where you can not only communicate around the world, but most distances in between. They are not dependent on repeaters, but do require large antennas. This limitation is not all bad, however, because simple wire antennas may communicate around the earth. Hams require a higher license class to do this. I have contacted Hams in 130+ countries including the Artic and Antarctic regions and aboard ships at sea. A great many of those contacts were made using an output power of 5 watts or less using battery power and wire antennas. Of course, a Ham can utilize a thousand watts if desired.

 

[MountainGirl]

two cans and some string might work!

Nah...I'd get all tangled up tryin to run the line.
I'm thinkin maybe this:

 

[Tnhawk]

It all depends on what the situation is. Just some thoughts:

VHF / UHF radios operating above 50Mhz are limited in range to line of sight or a bit more. The only solution is repeaters, which are, as far as I know, limited to Ham radio. This includes all non-Ham radios like GMRS etc.

HF radios operate at frequencies where you can not only communicate around the world, but most distances in between. They are not dependent on repeaters, but do require large antennas. This limitation is not all bad, however, because simple wire antennas may communicate around the earth. Hams require a higher license class to do this. I have contacted Hams in 130+ countries including the Artic and Antarctic regions and aboard ships at sea. A great many of those contacts were made using an output power of 5 watts or less using battery power and wire antennas. Of course, a Ham can utilize a thousand watts if desired.

During my Annual Training at Camp Shelby most of our comms were done using GMRS radios although we did a few calls to other countries using DMR radios. Over last weekend I used a 100 foot of wire for an antenna and made contacts across the US on five HF bands.

 

[Axxe55]

Nah...I'd get all tangled up tryin to run the line.
I'm thinkin maybe this:

View attachment 411888

add more cans and make it a party line!

 

[TheDan]

We're not looking to transmit.

Just get a shortwave radio. Portable with a built in battery for when the power goes out would be nice. You can run a wire of about 138ft around your house for an external antenna.

Picture a mile-radius giant donut-shaped thicket forest with a cleared 2-acre hole in the middle.

Lots of people put up towers to get above the treeline. Would be mandatory for VHF/UHF, but would help a lot with CB, too.

 

[TheDan]

Public safety went with 800Mhz radios for use in cities since they penetrate building better.

Did they also go digital? Digital radios can pick out signal from reflected waves that can be garbled and even below the noise floor.

 

[lonestardiver]

Did they also go digital? Digital radios can pick out signal from reflected waves that can be garbled and even below the noise floor.

In some cases yes.
Digital has its own set of challenges.
With analog, you can hear when you are near the edge of reception range. With digital you don’t, it just goes away.
Also jitter and other digital related issues can cause garbled transmissions.

From experience with digital in the fire service, a garbled digital transmission is unreadable. With analog you had the opportunity to possibly still get clear words when on the edge of your range.

 

[TheDan]

With analog you had the opportunity to possibly still get clear words when on the edge of your range.

yes, but that edge of range is further digital

 

[MountainGirl]

Just get a shortwave radio. Portable with a built in battery for when the power goes out would be nice. You can run a wire of about 138ft around your house for an external antenna.

Lots of people put up towers to get above the treeline. Would be mandatory for VHF/UHF, but would help a lot with CB, too.

That'd take a 60' tower, which wont happen.

 

[Otto_Mation]

I picked up a couple of Baofengs and programed them with Chirp with all the usual channels including the Noah channels. Mostly for disaster scenarios so that I could communicate with nearby family and or reach out for help if needed. While learning about radios, I went ahead and got a GMRS license. I don't talk to anyone on them but they are there if I need them. They might come in handy during a hurricane. ~$50 for two seems reasonable for something that I might need at some point. If SHTF, I'm going to be shooting not yacking on a radio though.

 

[TheDan]

That'd take a 60' tower, which wont happen.

Clearly you're not serious about it, then. You can find telescoping masts that high.

Don't worry, I'm not that serious about it either

 

[lonestardiver]

yes, but that edge of range is further digital

Not what I discovered in the fire service. Terrain and multi pathing can mess with the digital signal causing packets to arrive out of sequence. Then you have a garbled transmission. Now if the noise floor is high then yes digital has its advantages.

 

[bbbass]

All of the above...

 

[lonestardiver]

That'd take a 60' tower, which wont happen.

They aren’t that hard to set up. Main thing are good guy post anchoring and grounding of the tower.

The base of the tower and guy wire anchors will take some concrete… Rohn 25 is a good tower. You can sometimes find them at hamfests or used for not exorbinate amounts of money. Likely your biggest cost will be the concrete if you can find a complete tower used. Of course you can find individual tower sections and spread the cost over time. This is where some involvement in the ham community pays off. You can find these fairly inexpensively and get help putting it up.

It would be a good place to put a tv antenna too if you are so inclined.

 

[MountainGirl]

Clearly you're not serious about it, then. You can find telescoping masts that high.

Don't worry, I'm not that serious about it either

Clearly you don't know me, or our situation, so don't be an ass.

 

[NEPrepper]

i recommend baofeng to start off with. then upgrade from there

 

[lonestardiver]

I’ll go back and re-suggest you consider a shortwave radio to start with. You’ll need time to discover where you can get news and info so you can return to those frequencies if you need them. Some SW radios allow to save the frequencies as a channel in memory for quick access. You can string up a simple wire antenna around the eaves of your roof to keep it simple.

You’ll be able to pick up news from Europe, US, and many other places worldwide. In addition, you’ll get reception of the many of the ham radio bands too.

It’ll be a quick win and battery operation is important during disasters.

Then you can start improving on that.