HB 357 - Constitutional Carry

[Dash Riprock]

Posted? You missed the point. The shooter cased the store before hurting people. The shooter wrote in his manifesto that unarmed people are preferred to maximize casualties.

How would he know whether or not concealed carriers are armed? Is he just looking for open carriers? To this day, I believe I might have seen one person who did not appear to be LEO carrying in public.

I believe nearly all of these previous high profile mass shootings have occurred in off-limit places like schools, bars or posted movie theaters. The one exception besides this one I can think off of the top of my head is the one at the church near San Antonio, and I don't know if they had posted or if they didn't post and nobody inside was carrying. The point is that there seems to be a very clear pattern of mass shooters intentionally seeking out targets where they know people will not be legally armed.

It sounds like this guy for some reason thought Wal-Mart was such a place when in point of fact it wasn't, but I guess nobody was carrying there or if they were they didn't engage him for whatever reason.

 

[BillRedding]

"It sounds like this guy for some reason thought Wal-Mart was such a place when in point of fact it wasn't, but I guess nobody was carrying there or if they were they didn't engage him for whatever reason." -- Dash

I was told THIS particular Walmart WAS/IS a GFZ, as the land the store is on is leased from the nearby Cielo Vista Mall mall owners, and as part of the leasing contract (malls being GFZs) required Walmart be posted/GFZ. This was definitely surprising news to me, as I'd have never guessed it was any different from the all the OTHER non-GFZ Walmarts here in ELP.
Still, I've never been to THAT Walmart (ever) so I don't know if it has 30.06/30.07 signs on the front door or not. I had posted in another forum I "couldn't believe that out of the "1000-3000" people in the store at that time (according to local TV news), NO ONE was carrying, as Walmarts here in TX are NOT GFZs." Someone then posted saying THAT Walmart IS a GFZ.
As said, it was news to me...
Whether any one carrying there would have engaged the shooter (or not, for whatever reason) is another topic, but legally speaking -- re: the issue of "good guy guns" being on the premises at the time -- legally they couldn't be there, as it'd be illegal for customers to be carrying (CC or OC). Sure, people could CC and no one woudl be the wiser, but still that would be illegal, and some people will obey the law/GFZ regardless, even if it gets them wounded/killed (being unarmed & defenseless). Others would carry (CC) anyway...
Personally, I carry (OC) in Walmarts here in ELP regularly (and in CO where I OC, and NM where I CC, due to NM law restrictions) -- never any issue/negative incidents from managers/staff/customers in any of them.
So, if this IS true that this specific ELP Walmart IS a GFZ, then yes, it's VERY possible that fact figured into the shooter's plan...and why he didn't go to some OTHER non-GFZ Walmart in ELP where customers COULD carry (even if few people actually DO and a shooter is highly unlikely to encounter an armed citizen).
ALL Walmarts in ELP are heavily populated with Hispanic customers (even if some more than others) as ELP is mostly Hispanic (you don't even need to speak English here). So ANY of them would have served the shooter's (alleged) purpose.
-- BR
P.S. Due to the increasing number of mall, school, workplace and store shootings, I've decided to change out my short-range EDC (and OC) hand gun for a longer-range-capable handgun. At my age, should I choose to engage a mass/psycho-shooter, my bullets will get to him faster than I could (have mobility issues). ;-)

 

[TxStetson]

"It sounds like this guy for some reason thought Wal-Mart was such a place when in point of fact it wasn't, but I guess nobody was carrying there or if they were they didn't engage him for whatever reason." -- Dash

I was told THIS particular Walmart WAS/IS a GFZ, as the land the store is on is leased from the nearby Cielo Vista Mall mall owners, and as part of the leasing contract (malls being GFZs) required Walmart be posted/GFZ. This was definitely surprising news to me, as I'd have never guessed it was any different from the all the OTHER non-GFZ Walmarts here in ELP.
Still, I've never been to THAT Walmart (ever) so I don't know if it has 30.06/30.07 signs on the front door or not. I had posted in another forum I "couldn't believe that out of the "1000-3000" people in the store at that time (according to local TV news), NO ONE was carrying, as Walmarts here in TX are NOT GFZs." Someone then posted saying THAT Walmart IS a GFZ.
As said, it was news to me...
Whether any one carrying there would have engaged the shooter (or not, for whatever reason) is another topic, but legally speaking -- re: the issue of "good guy guns" being on the premises at the time -- legally they couldn't be there, as it'd be illegal for customers to be carrying (CC or OC). Sure, people could CC and no one woudl be the wiser, but still that would be illegal, and some people will obey the law/GFZ regardless, even if it gets them wounded/killed (being unarmed & defenseless). Others would carry (CC) anyway...
Personally, I carry (OC) in Walmarts here in ELP regularly (and in CO where I OC, and NM where I CC, due to NM law restrictions) -- never any issue/negative incidents from managers/staff/customers in any of them.
So, if this IS true that this specific ELP Walmart IS a GFZ, then yes, it's VERY possible that fact figured into the shooter's plan...and why he didn't go to some OTHER non-GFZ Walmart in ELP where customers COULD carry (even if few people actually DO and a shooter is highly unlikely to encounter an armed citizen).
ALL Walmarts in ELP are heavily populated with Hispanic customers (even if some more than others) as ELP is mostly Hispanic (you don't even need to speak English here). So ANY of them would have served the shooter's (alleged) purpose.
-- BR
P.S. Due to the increasing number of mall, school, workplace and store shootings, I've decided to change out my short-range EDC (and OC) hand gun for a longer-range-capable handgun. At my age, should I choose to engage a mass/psycho-shooter, my bullets will get to him faster than I could (have mobility issues). ;-)

You have an advantage over all the people speculating over whether or not this WM was posted. You’re in El Paso. If I was in your shoes, I would already have a definite answer.

 

[majormadmax]

Open carry invites trouble. I like concealed in public. Society is best off if one has to always guess as to who may packing.

I am seeing a trend with this new guy...and it's a familiar one.

 

[Renegade]

I was told THIS particular Walmart WAS/IS a GFZ,

It wasn't.

 

[BillFairbanks]

When I initially got my license, I wasn’t completely on board with Constitutional Carry. After learning more about the history of gun laws and the realities of Constitutional Carry States, I’m 100% on board.

The Walmart Shooting just highlights the need for CC.

As for the Walmart being a gun free zone, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t. The store was likely full of a combination of people either ineligible for a license or who chose not to exercise their rights to protect themselves.


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[Bobk]

I support it simply because I see licensing as an infringement of our rights.

Licensing is a way that the government uses to make revenue based off a right a that was yours to begin with. You should not have to pay for a right.

In Europe the government gives the people their rights. In the U.S. the people are the ones that give the government its authority. Anything that we the people don't give them belongs to the people.

Unfortunately, many times our representatives do not act in accordance with the wishes of the people.

 

[BillFairbanks]

I support it simply because I see licensing as an infringement of our rights.

It is.

Self Defense is the most basic human right.

Because of modern technology and the prevalence of guns, it’s necessary for people to have access to firearms to defend themselves.


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[BillRedding]

You have an advantage over all the people speculating over whether or not this WM was posted. You’re in El Paso. If I was in your shoes, I would already have a definite answer.

Good for you...but I have zero interest in going to that Walmart for any reason, including looking for signs -- I don't care if it's posted or not as the store is out of my way so no reason to go. Was just saying what I was told in a forum by another El Pasoan. However, I go to several other Walmarts here in ELP and OC (as I do everywhere else I go) without incident. I won't argue the OC vs. CC debate here as resistance is futile, but do have discussions on that topic (and personal safety/protection plans) with people I meet while OCing (which is one of my reasons for OCing).
-- BR

 

[lightflyer1]

If you go to Google maps and go to the WalMart location in El Paso and use sat view and zoom in there appear to be the signs required for no carry on the front door area. They aren't clear but appear just like some I have seen. Here is a screen shot of the front doors.

 

[Renegade]

If you go to Google maps and go to the WalMart location in El Paso and use sat view and zoom in there appear to be the signs required for no carry on the front door area. They aren't clear but appear just like some I have seen. Here is a screen shot of the front doors.

All I see are the TABC signs. I do not see a 06/07 sign which is basically 4 signs since it needs to be in English and Spanish.

 

[45tex]

One nice thing.If that ELP wallyworld was/is required to be a GUN FREE ZONE, that portion of their contract is null as of 1 September. When that sort of contract will be illegal. One of a very damn few good things from the last legislature. Don't really know if it negates a standing contract, and don't care. It won't happen after that date.

 

[BillFairbanks]

If you go to Google maps and go to the WalMart location in El Paso and use sat view and zoom in there appear to be the signs required for no carry on the front door area. They aren't clear but appear just like some I have seen. Here is a screen shot of the front doors.

I don’t see 30.06 signs in this picture

I checked the Texas 3006 app and haven’t found a listing for this Walmart or even the mall.

I’ve never seen a Walmart posted 30.06 or 30.07.

I don’t think this was a gun free zone. Sadly these victims were defenseless either because of their own choices or their citizenship/legal status.




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[Renegade]

One nice thing.If that ELP wallyworld was/is required to be a GUN FREE ZONE,

It wasn't. No sure why people are keeping this alive with unfounded speculation.

 

[ian]

Unfounded speculation? The shooter cased the place didn't see anyone carrying and killed a bunch of unarmed people.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Unfounded speculation? The shooter cased the place didn't see anyone carrying and killed a bunch of unarmed people.

The unfounded speculation is whether the location was posted 30.06/30.07.

 

[BillFairbanks]

Unfounded speculation? The shooter cased the place didn't see anyone carrying and killed a bunch of unarmed people.

It’s located in a Leftist border town and frequented by Mexicans, Democrats, legal and illegal immigrants.

Plus, we still need more Texans carrying.


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[ian]

The unfounded speculation is whether the location was posted 30.06/30.07.

Why is this important? Criminals don't really care about signs or laws for that matter. Are we looking to hit the murderer with a 'bringing a gun into a posted 30.06/.07 zone' charge?

 

[Renegade]

Unfounded speculation? The shooter cased the place didn't see anyone carrying and killed a bunch of unarmed people.

GFZ - unfounded speculation
"cased the place" - unfounded speculation

 

[Renegade]

Why is this important? Criminals don't really care about signs or laws for that matter. Are we looking to hit the murderer with a 'bringing a gun into a posted 30.06/.07 zone' charge?

Because it would prevent law-abiding folks from carrying there.