Help me understand being religious

[Eli]

Technically that might be correct given Pontias Pilates choices, truthfully I'd say the failure of human character is what got him killed. The Pharisees wanted him dead, the question is why? Because of what Jesus exposed them as being, hypocrites.
Even Herod, if my memory serves me correctly, didn't give a damn about him & basically told him "get out of here, you're a delusional fool". It was the Pharisees who really hated Jesus.

This is part of the 'new testament' that is considered to be slanderous against Jews. Remember, the 'new testament' was compiled by the same Roman government that killed him! It is also important to know a few things about Jewish Law, namely that only certain methods of execution are permitted, they must be humane (generally hanging), an execution could only be authorized by the High Court (Sanhedrin) which would not have taken place during Passover (and a near-prohibition on executions already in place), an execution would have not been allowed during Passover (the 'last supper' was a Pesach Seder, the special ritual meal associated with Passover), and other conflicts with Jewish Law (such as turning over a Jew for an inhumane execution by a foreign government). The reality is, he was most likely killed by the occupational Roman government for inciting Jews against the occupational government and their puppets. Do you trust the fed.gov narrative of what happened to the Branch Davidians?

Eli

 

[atticus finch]

This is part of the 'new testament' that is considered to be slanderous against Jews. Remember, the 'new testament' was compiled by the same Roman government that killed him! It is also important to know a few things about Jewish Law, namely that only certain methods of execution are permitted, they must be humane (generally hanging), an execution could only be authorized by the High Court (Sanhedrin) which would not have taken place during Passover (and a near-prohibition on executions already in place), an execution would have not been allowed during Passover (the 'last supper' was a Pesach Seder, the special ritual meal associated with Passover), and other conflicts with Jewish Law (such as turning over a Jew for an inhumane execution by a foreign government). The reality is, he was most likely killed by the occupational Roman government for inciting Jews against the occupational government and their puppets. Do you trust the fed.gov narrative of what happened to the Branch Davidians?

Eli

I was trying to be careful in avoiding the usual "..Da Jooos kilt the lord!!!....." As that's not wholly correct, yes the Pharisees were jews, thier differential in faith from Jesus was not thier motivation. The truth, at least to my understanding, is they hated him because he exposed the hypocrisy of thier actions, it had nothing to do with thier adherence to a given faith.
He didn't really advocate the inciting of anything, you'll recall "..Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasar's....." What rightfully belongs or is owed to a governmental contract, adhere to it, is what he said. The key word is rightfully, which also has been perverted from it's bonafide contextual meaning as He said it.
You'll recall Pontias Pilate was a judge, whom Jesus was brought before by the Pharisees with whatever so-called charges they could drum up. In other words, they tried to use the law to kill him, and Pilates response?
He found no evidence Jesus did any wrong by any means and in the end when the Pharisees whipped up an angry mob, Pilate didn't have the courage to tell the mob "no, he's done no wrong and need suffer no punishment. Go home"
Instead his moral courage failed and he did the symbolic washing of his hands to absolve himself of the matter.
Hence why I said what killed Jesus was the failure of human character, the Pharisees wanted him dead to avoid facing the truth about themselves, Pontias Pilate didn't have the courage to face a mob and washed his hands of the matter. Those who consider this accounting as blasphemy towards jews are wrong as to what they're claiming.
That those who did the killing and/or incited the mob to sway the judge were jews is incidental, it was the failure of moral courage which did the deed. It is roughly the same reason for the 'official' narrative of waco.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

I was trying to be careful in avoiding the usual "..Da Jooos kilt the lord!!!....." As that's not wholly correct, yes the Pharisees were jews, thier differential in faith from Jesus was not thier motivation. The truth, at least to my understanding, is they hated him because he exposed the hypocrisy of thier actions, it had nothing to do with thier adherence to a given faith.
He didn't really advocate the inciting of anything, you'll recall "..Render unto Ceaser what is Ceasar's....." What rightfully belongs or is owed to a governmental contract, adhere to it, is what he said. The key word is rightfully, which also has been perverted from it's bonafide contextual meaning as He said it.
You'll recall Pontias Pilate was a judge, whom Jesus was brought before by the Pharisees with whatever so-called charges they could drum up. In other words, they tried to use the law to kill him, and Pilates response?
He found no evidence Jesus did any wrong by any means and in the end when the Pharisees whipped up an angry mob, Pilate didn't have the courage to tell the mob "no, he's done no wrong and need suffer no punishment. Go home"
Instead his moral courage failed and he did the symbolic washing of his hands to absolve himself of the matter.
Hence why I said what killed Jesus was the failure of human character, the Pharisees wanted him dead to avoid facing the truth about themselves, Pontias Pilate didn't have the courage to face a mob and washed his hands of the matter. Those who consider this accounting as blasphemy towards jews are wrong as to what they're claiming.
That those who did the killing and/or incited the mob to sway the judge were jews is incidental, it was the failure of moral courage which did the deed. It is roughly the same reason for the 'official' narrative of waco.

+1

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Bought me a KJV NT today!

Alright! The KJV is the first version I ever read. This translation has a way of searing into your memory. I now primarily use the NASB or the NRSV for studying, but when I just want a relaxing read, I go with the underrated NKJV, one of my favorites.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Now all you need is the writings of the people that lived in the Americas and modern day prophets.

Revelation 22:18-20

But anyway, i had a conversation with some Mormon missionaries a while ago. I'll tell you, Hebrews 20-28 really blew them away. Add to that a little John chapter one and Isaiah 45-5.

edit that. Hebrews 7:20-28

 

[matefrio]

Revelation 22:18-20

But anyway, i had a conversation with some Mormon missionaries a while ago. I'll tell you, Hebrews 20-28 really blew them away. Add to that a little John chapter one and Isaiah 45-5.

Not here to play the Bible bash game showing how we understand it differently citing chapter and verse.

As a missionary I had argument and counter argument mapped out and footnoted. I welcomed the debate and had a few bibles thrown at me and pages ripped out and thrown at me. I savored the win.

Then I realized, although quite fun, it's not the way Christ taught nor was it Christ like so I stopped that day, repented and as tempting it is to go back on the debate I don't want to.

God lives. His Church lives as Jesus intended and organized it with Prophets, Seers and Revelators today. I believe that the Gospel of Christ was and is intended for the world, so I do believe in other prophets not found in the Bible that preached His word to those on all continents.

These writings teach of Christ and stand as another witness to Him, they don't distract or disparage the image of Christ you know and love.

As one of them wrote "And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

 

[Ny700]

You've got to serve somebody.

Is that really a truth. I have never been told nor have I ever told someone that they in fact had to serve someone. Except when I managed a restaurant in college and I told a waitress yes you have to serve the guy over there that stinks like a garbage dum.
You see that statement would come from someone who I would imagine grew up in a religious environment maybe surrounded by religion. That statement was made as a matter of fact but that assumes a religious lifestyle is a matter of fact. Goes back to my original question of why? Imagine a group of people showing up on your day of worship and it was the first time in their lives that they had ever seen a group of people worshipping. What would they see. A group of people together in a building of varying ornateness built for the primary if not sole purpose but to worship. They would be singing or speaking in unicine. Perhaps not even in their normal language. There would be sudden break outs in song. There would be props. There may even be images of a man dying around the room.

Think just how weird that would look to a group of people with zero exposure to any type of religion. Now very few people in this world at this time would have zero exposure to religion. But for someone who was not raised as a believer that's how much of this looks. The question will easily get boiled down to if you believe you have faith if you have faith then this can make sense and if you don't have those things well then it won't.

I fascinated and somewhat confused by believers. And again maybe it just comes down to my personal ability to cope with the bad that I've never turned to some to help support me through it. As it stands I'm at a point in my life of great heartache and fear. Maybe it was the reason that all this came to mind as I continue to asked daily if my family has found a church by new people we meet. But I just for the life of me can not wrap my mind around the need a person feels to believe in something bigger or more grand than what is right here around them. People sometimes go looking for a sign or hope to see a miracle. The sign the miracle is right here around them it washes over them everyday and has become so common place that it gets ignored.

I guess the statement has truth you have to serve someone. That someone is not the creator it is not a god. The people I serve are those I interact with each day. Every time I wave a fool through an intersection because they were impatient and got themselves stuck in no mans land I serve their loved ones by helping that fool not get killed. I serve daily I guess I just don't align myself with a group to do it.


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[Savage805]

You see that statement would come from someone who I would imagine grew up in a religious environment maybe surrounded by religion. That statement was made as a matter of fact but that assumes a religious lifestyle is a matter of fact. Goes back to my original question of why? Imagine a group of people showing up on your day of worship and it was the first time in their lives that they had ever seen a group of people worshipping. What would they see. A group of people together in a building of varying ornateness built for the primary if not sole purpose but to worship. They would be singing or speaking in unicine. Perhaps not even in their normal language. There would be sudden break outs in song. There would be props. There may even be images of a man dying around the room.

Think just how weird that would look to a group of people with zero exposure to any type of religion. Now very few people in this world at this time would have zero exposure to religion. But for someone who was not raised as a believer that's how much of this looks. The question will easily get boiled down to if you believe you have faith if you have faith then this can make sense and if you don't have those things well then it won't.

Sounds like the mole man scene from Planet of the Apes worshiping the bomb.

I guess the statement has truth you have to serve someone. That someone is not the creator it is not a god. The people I serve are those I interact with each day. Every time I wave a fool through an intersection because they were impatient and got themselves stuck in no mans land I serve their loved ones by helping that fool not get killed. I serve daily I guess I just don't align myself with a group to do it.

Now you are on to something.

Personally from my experience Kris Kristofferson is pretty on target.

Jesus was a Capricorn (Owed to John Prine) by Kris Kristofferson

Jesus was a Capricorn, he ate organic foods.
He believed in love and peace and never wore no shoes.
Long hair, beard and sandals and a funky bunch of friends.
Reckon they'd just nail him up if He come down again.

'Cos everybody's got to have somebody to look down on.
Who they can feel better than at anytime they please.
Someone doin' somethin' dirty, decent folks can frown on.
If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me.

Get back, John!

Egg Head's cousin Red Neck's cussin' hippies for their hair.
Others laugh at straights who laugh at freaks who laugh at squares.
Some folks hate the whites who hate the blacks who hate the clan.
Most of us hate anything that we don't understand.

'Cos everybody's got to have somebody to look down on.
Who they can feel better than at anytime they please.
Someone doin' somethin' dirty, decent folks can frown on.
If you can't find nobody else, then help yourself to me.

Help yourself, brother.
Help yourself, Gentlemen.
Help yourself Reverend.

Jesus Was a Capricorn Lyrics - Kris Kristofferson. Album: Essential Kris Kristofferson

No offense meant to your or anyone's personal beliefs.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Not here to play the Bible bash game showing how we understand it differently citing chapter and verse.

As a missionary I had argument and counter argument mapped out and footnoted. I welcomed the debate and had a few bibles thrown at me and pages ripped out and thrown at me. I savored the win.

Then I realized, although quite fun, it's not the way Christ taught nor was it Christ like so I stopped that day, repented and as tempting it is to go back on the debate I don't want to.

God lives. His Church lives as Jesus intended and organized it with Prophets, Seers and Revelators today. I believe that the Gospel of Christ was and is intended for the world, so I do believe in other prophets not found in the Bible that preached His word to those on all continents.

These writings teach of Christ and stand as another witness to Him, they don't distract or disparage the image of Christ you know and love.

As one of them wrote "And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."

I hear you brother. All is good, especially here with fellow Texans.

I got my start as a Christian (born again/protestant, reformed tradition) taking a heavy interest in apologetics and in the work of Walter Martin. It comes out at times, like Saturday mornings when the door bell rings, or when talking to bicyclists .

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Is that really a truth. I have never been told nor have I ever told someone that they in fact had to serve someone. Except when I managed a restaurant in college and I told a waitress yes you have to serve the guy over there that stinks like a garbage dum.
You see that statement would come from someone who I would imagine grew up in a religious environment maybe surrounded by religion. That statement was made as a matter of fact but that assumes a religious lifestyle is a matter of fact. Goes back to my original question of why? Imagine a group of people showing up on your day of worship and it was the first time in their lives that they had ever seen a group of people worshipping. What would they see. A group of people together in a building of varying ornateness built for the primary if not sole purpose but to worship. They would be singing or speaking in unicine. Perhaps not even in their normal language. There would be sudden break outs in song. There would be props. There may even be images of a man dying around the room.

Think just how weird that would look to a group of people with zero exposure to any type of religion. Now very few people in this world at this time would have zero exposure to religion. But for someone who was not raised as a believer that's how much of this looks. The question will easily get boiled down to if you believe you have faith if you have faith then this can make sense and if you don't have those things well then it won't.

I fascinated and somewhat confused by believers. And again maybe it just comes down to my personal ability to cope with the bad that I've never turned to some to help support me through it. As it stands I'm at a point in my life of great heartache and fear. Maybe it was the reason that all this came to mind as I continue to asked daily if my family has found a church by new people we meet. But I just for the life of me can not wrap my mind around the need a person feels to believe in something bigger or more grand than what is right here around them. People sometimes go looking for a sign or hope to see a miracle. The sign the miracle is right here around them it washes over them everyday and has become so common place that it gets ignored.

I guess the statement has truth you have to serve someone. That someone is not the creator it is not a god. The people I serve are those I interact with each day. Every time I wave a fool through an intersection because they were impatient and got themselves stuck in no mans land I serve their loved ones by helping that fool not get killed. I serve daily I guess I just don't align myself with a group to do it.


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That statement was made by Bob Dylan, a 60s folk singer turned born-again Christian. His gospel songs touch the soul.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Ny700. Will you just admit already that you are an atheist and are only trolling here with this discussion, trying to get a rise out of the religious folks. People have tried to relate to you personally and it doesn't seem like you have really gotten it.

If you philosophical arguments or scientific and historical evidence demonstrating the existence of God, it is certainly there, you just have to look at it if your arrogance will allow you. Or I can point you in the right direction if you truly are interested.

 

[Younggun]

So, because he has not converted after reading this thread he is a troll?

I think you are way off base an should not take a his different beliefs so personally.

 

[breakingcontact]

That statement was made by Bob Dylan, a 60s folk singer turned born-again Christian. His gospel songs touch the soul.

Right. I thought people would catch that.

It is true though. Everyone serves someone.

 

[Savage805]

So, because he has not converted after reading this thread he is a troll?

I think you are way off base an should not take a his different beliefs so personally.

Absolutely

 

[JohnnyLoco]

So, because he has not converted after reading this thread he is a troll?

I think you are way off base an should not take a his different beliefs so personally.

Not you again. Okay, I'll state this a little differently.

Is that really a truth. I have never been told nor have I ever told someone that they in fact had to serve someone. Except when I managed a restaurant in college and I told a waitress yes you have to serve the guy over there that stinks like a garbage dum.
You see that statement would come from someone who I would imagine grew up in a religious environment maybe surrounded by religion. That statement was made as a matter of fact but that assumes a religious lifestyle is a matter of fact. Goes back to my original question of why? Imagine a group of people showing up on your day of worship and it was the first time in their lives that they had ever seen a group of people worshipping. What would they see. A group of people together in a building of varying ornateness built for the primary if not sole purpose but to worship. They would be singing or speaking in unicine. Perhaps not even in their normal language. There would be sudden break outs in song. There would be props. There may even be images of a man dying around the room.

Think just how weird that would look to a group of people with zero exposure to any type of religion. Now very few people in this world at this time would have zero exposure to religion. But for someone who was not raised as a believer that's how much of this looks. The question will easily get boiled down to if you believe you have faith if you have faith then this can make sense and if you don't have those things well then it won't.

I fascinated and somewhat confused by believers. And again maybe it just comes down to my personal ability to cope with the bad that I've never turned to some to help support me through it. As it stands I'm at a point in my life of great heartache and fear. Maybe it was the reason that all this came to mind as I continue to asked daily if my family has found a church by new people we meet. But I just for the life of me can not wrap my mind around the need a person feels to believe in something bigger or more grand than what is right here around them. People sometimes go looking for a sign or hope to see a miracle. The sign the miracle is right here around them it washes over them everyday and has become so common place that it gets ignored.

I guess the statement has truth you have to serve someone. That someone is not the creator it is not a god. The people I serve are those I interact with each day. Every time I wave a fool through an intersection because they were impatient and got themselves stuck in no mans land I serve their loved ones by helping that fool not get killed. I serve daily I guess I just don't align myself with a group to do it.


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It's like he did not even listen to one thing people have said in regards to being religious or having faith. Just a lot of supposition, overgeneralization, and misrepresentation.

No, I'm not jumping on him for his personal beliefs, I am calling him out for not listening.

 

[Ny700]

So, because he has not converted after reading this thread he is a troll?

I think you are way off base an should not take a his different beliefs so personally.

I'm not an atheist and a legit question with thousands of years of complexity dies not make me a troll for not jumping on board or jumping off the thread.

My original question was why. The problem is for someone who has been in a religion since as long as they can remember and who was raised with belief and faith equating to fact it is hard to understand and fully appreciate some one from the exact opposite perspective looking at a religious person going I just don't get it.
I am not an athirst because I do very strongly believe that there is a god. I however don't believe that, that god is in any way summed up in the texts that are discussed and read in church.

My personal take on religion is something that started 5K+ years ago as a general way to control and positively impact people in a time where there was no other way to do it. Take the Jewish position if eating kosher. Do are we to think that a god stated there are certain animals that should not be eaten or certain methods for preparation that should be used. Come on really. Or was it more than likely that a smarter or more observant member of a group went hmmm when we eat pork we get sick or die and when we eat meat out of the wooden bowls we collect our milk in we get sick or die. Well nobody will listen to me so if god said no maybe they will listen. Now that is a cartoonish kindergarten perspective but it does have a thread of truth to it. And to be honest it was a Rabai who gave me the example.

Why would I bring this up on this forum. Well as I mentioned earlier in one of my posts I'm new to Texas but do to work I am not new to relocation. This is the first place I've ever lived where every recommendation also came with a church recommendation. I mean literally my wife and I would be talking to people about schools doctors heck grocery stores. A conversation we have had countless times on 11 other moves and never, not one single time has anyone ever asked if we wanted a church recomendation before, until we moved here where it has been every time. And what I did interesting about that is it was always an assumption. They didn't ask if we were religious or even what denomination. They just simply offered up the name of a church as a place we should be going. And I'm sure many of you may not think that the recomendation was odd or out of place and neither my wife nor I took it offensively but it was interesting because it has literally never happened before. So yea as someone who specifically does not like the idea of organized religion, but does wholeheartedly support the idea of a community group organizing for a million and one reasons and also supports any group that helps a person find a level of inner piece and comfort (something which thankfully I myself to this point have not needed) finds it very interesting how such a broad group of people are so involved in something that through much of the country I have been exposed to simply isn't.

Simply I find this all very interesting. An I would hope to say that nothing I said in this post is in any way degrading to anyone of any religion because I can assure you that is not in any way my intent.


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[Ny700]

I realized someone earlier asked about my upbringing well I spent most of my child good in the metro New York area. Spent time in New Jersey virginia many years in michigan and worked extensively in Kentucky, Tennessee, and Georgia before recently relocating to Texas.
My father was Jewish. My mother was roman Cathie and my wife baptist.


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[Ny700]

Jonnyloco
I have listened to folks here and on several occasions specifically commented that their personal reasons for if ding religion or being thankful for it were some of the best reasons I've heard for turning to religion.
Now a person looking for something to have faith in at a time where they themselves were feeling empty makes some sense to me. why a person would turn to one religion over another especially without having given equal exploration to the others seems superficial to me. Now I understand the vast majority of Folks here align themselves with the Christian faith of some sort. It's ashamed more eastern or dear religions tend not to be represented in such discussions but it's a demographics issue. I always find the age and timelines of religions interesting because history with out context for time and ace is pointless. There was a lot of discussion earlier between old testimant and new testimant. There was a lot of time well over 100 hundred years almost two hundred years between the death of Christ and what is considered the formal start of Christianity and the. Several hundred years later that the Muslim faith is established. Consider the stability the level of communication and records keeping for the time as well as the power structure. All of these things had direct effect on the formations of these religions not just the word of god as handed down


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[JohnnyLoco]

Jonnyloco
I have listened to folks here and on several occasions specifically commented that their personal reasons for if ding religion or being thankful for it were some of the best reasons I've heard for turning to religion.
Now a person looking for something to have faith in at a time where they themselves were feeling empty makes some sense to me. why a person would turn to one religion over another especially without having given equal exploration to the others seems superficial to me. Now I understand the vast majority of Folks here align themselves with the Christian faith of some sort. It's ashamed more eastern or dear religions tend not to be represented in such discussions but it's a demographics issue. I always find the age and timelines of religions interesting because history with out context for time and ace is pointless. There was a lot of discussion earlier between old testimant and new testimant. There was a lot of time well over 100 hundred years almost two hundred years between the death of Christ and what is considered the formal start of Christianity and the. Several hundred years later that the Muslim faith is established. Consider the stability the level of communication and records keeping for the time as well as the power structure. All of these things had direct effect on the formations of these religions not just the word of god as handed down


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This is what I am talking about. You have an agenda brother, whether you'd like to admit it or not. Or you just have a lot of preconceived notions and generally (and incorrectly) feel intellectually superior to others.

The part about picking one religion over another shows your lack of knowledge of the world's religions and definitely a lack of the philosophical skills to dissect and analyze each of them separately.

Judging the last part of this post, you know very little about comparative religions, early Christian history, or the development of orthodox Christian theology.

Just enough of this passive aggressiveness, say what you really are thinking.

 

[breakingcontact]

The OP keeps saying how people just grow up with faith so of course they believe. Thats not my story nor the story of many Christians I know.