Help me understand being religious

[JohnnyLoco]

The OP keeps saying how people just grow up with faith so of course they believe. Thats not my story nor the story of many Christians I know.

Thanks for explaining better than I could.

 

[breakingcontact]

Thanks for explaining better than I could.

Ha! No prob. Peoples stories of coming to faith run a wide range. A pastor friend of mine considers himself truly having been saved while being a youth minister.

Yes some grow up in faith...I really consider them to have inherited such a head start due to their parents and wish I had that. Could have avoided a lot of heartache.

When I meet people and can share my testimony I really feel that it helps people who have had troubled lives, been selfish, hurt others and so on feel that you dont have to be perfect to be a Christian. I hate who I was. That person is dead now.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

The OP keeps saying how people just grow up with faith so of course they believe. Thats not my story nor the story of many Christians I know.

Kind of reminds me of another Dylan song where he says "You were telling him about Buddha, you were telling him about Mohammed in the same breath. You never mentioned one time the Man who came and died a criminal's death."

With the amount of press other religions get, the way Christianity is stigmatized in our society, it is a miracle anyone becomes a Christian these days.

The son of the famous atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair became a Christian minister.

Christianity is flourishing in of all places, China, Korea, the Middle East, and Africa, amidst sever persecution and massacre. Much the same way it flourished in the early Church under the Romans.

Yeah, you get murdered for being a Christian in many places in Africa and the Middle East. Doesn't sound like a cakewalk to me.

Why would these people risk everything?

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Ha! No prob. Peoples stories of coming to faith run a wide range. A pastor friend of mine considers himself truly having been saved while being a youth minister.

Yes some grow up in faith...I really consider them to have inherited such a head start due to their parents and wish I had that. Could have avoided a lot of heartache.

When I meet people and can share my testimony I really feel that it helps people who have had troubled lives, been selfish, hurt others and so on feel that you dont have to be perfect to be a Christian. I hate who I was. That person is dead now.

Man, I love hearing these stories. Thanks for sharing.

 

[breakingcontact]

Kind of reminds me of another Dylan song where he says "You were telling him about Buddha, you were telling him about Mohammed in the same breath. You never mentioned one time the Man who came and died a criminal's death."

With the amount of press other religions get, the way Christianity is stigmatized in our society, it is a miracle anyone becomes a Christian these days.

The son of the famous atheist Madalyn Murray O'Hair became a Christian minister.

Christianity is flourishing in of all places, China, Korea, the Middle East, and Africa, amidst sever persecution and massacre. Much the same way it flourished in the early Church under the Romans.

Yeah, you get murdered for being a Christian in many places in Africa and the Middle East. Doesn't sound like a cakewalk to me.

Why would these people risk everything?

Slow Train Coming is an awesome album. Bob Dylan is freaking brilliant and a real artist.

I came to faith when my life was falling apart. I know some would say its out of weakness. I could have held onto things in my life, worldly things that from the outside looking in were nice and shiny. I wanted more. I wanted something deeper.

I found it. Changed my life. Saved my life. Reborn. No turning back.

 

[JohnnyLoco]

Slow Train Coming is an awesome album. Bob Dylan is freaking brilliant and a real artist.

I came to faith when my life was falling apart. I know some would say its out of weakness. I could have held onto things in my life, worldly things that from the outside looking in were nice and shiny. I wanted more. I wanted something deeper.

I found it. Changed my life. Saved my life. Reborn. No turning back.

Awesome. Praise the Lord.

I know some like to try to construe coming to faith like this as being out of weakness, but it's not. It can hit anyone at anytime, which is the weird thing and something that doesn't get talked about enough. For some, they are on the top of the world, riding high. Others, like me, always believed on some level, from family, but it all came together at the moment of truly hearing and understanding the gospel at a later age.

 

[Younggun]

Trying to discuss such different belief systems will almost always fall to claims of trolling or someone feeling insulted.

I'm sure y'all wouldn't appreciate someone telling you the beliefs you build your life around are wrong, that's understandable. It's also a big part of the reason many don't participate heavily in these threads.

Of course, in this case the OP came in with a specific question of "help me understand". Different from "tell me why" in that "tell me why" would involve and answer with no requirement for understanding. Understanding would require continued questioning of others until it "clicked" which I don't think will happen without the person already willing to except the idea of a faith based belief system. I don't think the OP has any intention or openness to this outside of his vague claim of belief in a god not represented by normal religious beliefs.

I don't know that he is a troll, and don't know that he has shown trolling tendencies. It's simply something that is difficult to discuss without it being taken personally.



Peace and bacon grease.

 

[Ny700]

Brother my point of growing up with religion isn't to say that it automatically makes you a believer but it does provide a certain level of should we say comfort in having faith where someone who did not grow up in such a manor often would not.
I am surprised that no one has in anyway attempted to explain the interesting part of what appears to be a regional expectation of religion again one of the main reasons I posed this question. Your assertion of me having an agenda could not possibly be less grounded in reality I am not hear to pursuance anyone on anything. To be perfectly honest I am hear going hey I am clearly a stranger in a strange land...I don't get it what the heck am I missing because literally every where I go and every one I meet in this place has so far to date expressed to me that they are to what ever degree involved in a church of some sort. I'm not a kid I didn't grow up in a sheltered environment and I have lived all though nearly exclusively in the eastern time zone never run across this before. So yes I find it interesting. I have never in my life written someone off for being religious. Unlike some non believers I do not presume some state of mental difficiancy because someone has faith. And I can care less what religion a person follows. Generally they are far more similar than different. I simply have never been some where especially as developed an area I.e. Urban as where I am now and see such a huge percentage of devote anything.


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[Ny700]

Trying to discuss such different belief systems will almost always fall to claims of trolling or someone feeling insulted.

I'm sure y'all wouldn't appreciate someone telling you the beliefs you build your life around are wrong, that's understandable. It's also a big part of the reason many don't participate heavily in these threads.

Of course, in this case the OP came in with a specific question of "help me understand". Different from "tell me why" in that "tell me why" would involve and answer with no requirement for understanding. Understanding would require continued questioning of others until it "clicked" which I don't think will happen without the person already willing to except the idea of a faith based belief system. I don't think the OP has any intention or openness to this outside of his vague claim of belief in a god not represented by normal religious beliefs.

I don't know that he is a troll, and don't know that he has shown trolling tendencies. It's simply something that is difficult to discuss without it being taken personally.

Thank you for that, as tolling was not my intend and you are correct in that my question was help me understand. It was not in an attempt to help convert and no I have no interest in becoming religious. Listening to people explain why it is important to them how it impacts or ties into their life I find interesting and as I have said before I am fascinated by the for lack of a better way of putting in the percentage of faith based folks I have met here. I don't say that to make is sound bad and I have at no point asked anyone to express what faith they are of cause I don't really care that's their choice I'm just interested in why?

You know the normal structure is a kid is born they are raised in a faith of their parents choosing. Most go with the flow as nothing more than an exercise of obedience to their parents and at somepoint something clicks for them and they either say yea this is for me or no I have no idea why I'm here. What happens next well some continue going through the motions almost out of a sense of obligation and others dive all the way in and it becomes a deep part of who they are an others walk away completely and like most things in life their are a million versions of degree.

There are not atheists in a fox hole well that makes sense to me and I can also see where a person at the very edge of life goes there has to be something else for me and they turn to religion. But there are also so many other stories of people turning to religion later in life and I find it interesting.

As I said before I've never felt like that was something missing in my life. Growing up my parents took me to church I went to temple I went to a mosque with my neighbor on many an occasion. And my parents said we aren't going to make this choice for you. You look you listen you make the choice when you are ready. To my mothers complete horror my decision was I have no desire to be part of a religion. My sister did the same till she was about 38 and after her second child was born she started going to a Lutheran church I believe. I had asked her to you believe in what they are saying in your church. Her response was no not really but the people are nice and there is a nice sense of community. So I don't know is that wrong to sit there follow along participate but to actually not believe, I don't know I think if I was religious there might be a part of me that was insulted and another that says stay as long as you like and see what happens.

Peace and bacon grease.

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[JohnnyLoco]

Brother my point of growing up with religion isn't to say that it automatically makes you a believer but it does provide a certain level of should we say comfort in having faith where someone who did not grow up in such a manor often would not.
I am surprised that no one has in anyway attempted to explain the interesting part of what appears to be a regional expectation of religion again one of the main reasons I posed this question. Your assertion of me having an agenda could not possibly be less grounded in reality I am not hear to pursuance anyone on anything. To be perfectly honest I am hear going hey I am clearly a stranger in a strange land...I don't get it what the heck am I missing because literally every where I go and every one I meet in this place has so far to date expressed to me that they are to what ever degree involved in a church of some sort. I'm not a kid I didn't grow up in a sheltered environment and I have lived all though nearly exclusively in the eastern time zone never run across this before. So yes I find it interesting. I have never in my life written someone off for being religious. Unlike some non believers I do not presume some state of mental difficiancy because someone has faith. And I can care less what religion a person follows. Generally they are far more similar than different. I simply have never been some where especially as developed an area I.e. Urban as where I am now and see such a huge percentage of devote anything.


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I would like to believe this were true, unfortunately from my experience it is not.

I don't know, it seems you want to get into a sort of anthropological discussion based on some of your observations and presuppositions.

I think, ultimately, many religious folks would reject the entire premise of "regional expectations" and your overall thesis, at least when it concerns Christianity, because it historically shatters these notions.

I will say this, if you look at history, big cities have almost always been considered havens for moral depravity. This is the same from Egypt, to Central and South America, Mesopotamia, Canaan, Greece, Rome.

You contrast this with the way nomadic tribal culture and small peasant communities have almost always been seen as more moralistic and religious, from Europe, the Middle East, to China, India, Indochina, even if they were warlike and violent.

I can try to take a stab at what I think you are getting at. My guess is that families, small communities, simple ways of life are inherently more in tune with the natural order, nature, and true love and compassion. Romans 1:20 and Psalm 19 both state that God is revealed through nature. Maybe you have to admit that there is something to this, just based on observation.

 

[atticus finch]

Slow Train Coming is an awesome album. Bob Dylan is freaking brilliant and a real artist.

I came to faith when my life was falling apart. I know some would say its out of weakness. I could have held onto things in my life, worldly things that from the outside looking in were nice and shiny. I wanted more. I wanted something deeper.

I found it. Changed my life. Saved my life. Reborn. No turning back.

It is the exact opposite of weakness, it is something that requires the courage of character. We do not come to faith unless we come to it from a standpoint of humility.
What is humility? St Anne said it best: "humility is truth" Knowing it, understanding it, and above all admitting it to ourselves. It is the courage of self-honesty.
People do not change until they are forced to change by whatever means. Almost invariably that change requires them to face some hard truths they were previously able to avoid. Most people I see are able to avoid the harsher truths of life as they have a great degree of control over thier lives, hence they don't have to face the truths required to make hard choices "adversity builds character"
When they lose control over thier lives by whatever means, then they can no longer avoid the hard truths, thats when they realize they don't have the power to reassert control and they turn to God.
You'll notice most folks don't turn to God for help when times are good, only when times are bad....

 

[TwinGlocks]

I don't practice. Not interested.

 

[breakingcontact]

It is the exact opposite of weakness, it is something that requires the courage of character. We do not come to faith unless we come to it from a standpoint of humility.
What is humility? St Anne said it best: "humility is truth" Knowing it, understanding it, and above all admitting it to ourselves. It is the courage of self-honesty.
People do not change until they are forced to change by whatever means. Almost invariably that change requires them to face some hard truths they were previously able to avoid. Most people I see are able to avoid the harsher truths of life as they have a great degree of control over thier lives, hence they don't have to face the truths required to make hard choices "adversity builds character"
When they lose control over thier lives by whatever means, then they can no longer avoid the hard truths, thats when they realize they don't have the power to reassert control and they turn to God.
You'll notice most folks don't turn to God for help when times are good, only when times are bad....

Well said. I thought I was in control, now I know I'm not.

 

[TheDan]

I am surprised that no one has in anyway attempted to explain the interesting part of what appears to be a regional expectation of religion again one of the main reasons I posed this question.

There are regional biases of all types. Communities and sub-communities tend to form around some basic ideals and often treat people who don't conform as weirdos. I mostly grew up in a small town in LA where which church you went to was a large part of people's identity. Here in Austin the dominate subculture is that of elitist new-age hippies. If you've moved around as much as you say you have, I'm surprised you haven't noticed that various regional expectations are everywhere.

Well said. I thought I was in control, now I know I'm not.

This is another thing I don't quite understand... I know and understand that the only thing I have any control over is my actions. Often I don't even have control over the choices that are available to me. How is an acknowledgement of lack of control equate to faith?

 

[breakingcontact]

There are regional biases of all types. Communities and sub-communities tend to form around some basic ideals and often treat people who don't conform as weirdos. I mostly grew up in a small town in LA where which church you went to was a large part of people's identity. Here in Austin the dominate subculture is that of elitist new-age hippies. If you've moved around as much as you say you have, I'm surprised you haven't noticed that various regional expectations are everywhere.


This is another thing I don't quite understand... I know and understand that the only thing I have any control over is my actions. Often I don't even have control over the choices that are available to me. How is an acknowledgement of lack of control equate to faith?

I dont know if it equates to faith but it is part of it.

I appreciate when you talk on local communities. That and the family really did much of what the "state" tries to do now.

 

[TheDan]

I appreciate when you talk on local communities. That and the family really did much of what the "state" tries to do now.

Yep... My hope is that people will start to realize it's themselves and their friends and family that can really make a positive difference in their life and will stop turning to government to force their will on others.

 

[atticus finch]

There are regional biases of all types. Communities and sub-communities tend to form around some basic ideals and often treat people who don't conform as weirdos. I mostly grew up in a small town in LA where which church you went to was a large part of people's identity. Here in Austin the dominate subculture is that of elitist new-age hippies. If you've moved around as much as you say you have, I'm surprised you haven't noticed that various regional expectations are everywhere.


This is another thing I don't quite understand... I know and understand that the only thing I have any control over is my actions. Often I don't even have control over the choices that are available to me. How is an acknowledgement of lack of control equate to faith?

You're putting the car before the horse to a certain extent. Faith generally comes before an acknowledgement of our lack of control over our lives, we can do the footwork in terms of what choices are available to us. The results are not in our control, from a stand point of faith those are in God's hands. That doesn't mean we have to like or condone whatever the results are or our immediate circumstances, it does mean we accept things as they are and pray for the strength to continue on in the hope things will get better. Hence what Jesus meant by "..pick up your cross and follow me..." It also does not mean we cannot or should not pray for our needs, those being our temporal needs on this earth, it also doesn't mean we should approach God as some cosmic bell-boy to fullful whatever immediate gratification we are looking for. In simpler terms, only arrogant fools pray for winning lottery tickets, faith in God doesn't work that way.

 

[TheDan]

You're putting the cart before the horse to a certain extent.

Well, I do like mid-engine cars. Even Enzo came around eventually

As for the rest, I simply just don't worry about the things out of my control. There's no point.

 

[Ny700]

I have certainly seen religious commonalities in the different areas I have lived, but nothing like this. More importantly the difference in that at least this area I'm in the Dallas metroplex area, it seems to be assumptive. The question has never been asked to us "are you looking for a church". Or "do you go to church". It's always been delivered as "I have a great church for you". I'm not saying there is something wrong here or with that happening. Just interesting because it has never happened before


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[breakingcontact]

I have certainly seen religious commonalities in the different areas I have lived, but nothing like this. More importantly the difference in that at least this area I'm in the Dallas metroplex area, it seems to be assumptive. The question has never been asked to us "are you looking for a church". Or "do you go to church". It's always been delivered as "I have a great church for you". I'm not saying there is something wrong here or with that happening. Just interesting because it has never happened before
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Thats awesome!