Here we go again. National Guard already called out in Louisville

[rotor]

From what I read, in two different articles, originally the warrant was a "no-knock" warrant, but the judge changed it to an announce and enter instead. The police state they knocked, and the boyfriend did state he heard pounding on the door. So IMO, they did knock.

I have not seen that anywhere. If true it makes a significant change in my opinion. Thanks

 

[Axxe55]

I have not seen that anywhere. If true it makes a significant change in my opinion. Thanks

Rotor, it's in one of those articles I linked earlier on this thread, but don't remember which one. It was toward the end of the article.

 

[Axxe55]

I have not seen that anywhere. If true it makes a significant change in my opinion. Thanks

Rotor, it was toward the end of the NYT article. here is the excerpt from the story.

While the department had received court approval for a “no-knock” entry, the orders were changed before the raid to “knock and announce,” meaning that the police had to identify themselves.

 

[Axxe55]

They, cops, have been know to raid the wrong house. They have been know to act on bad data... But yeah, somebody come busting through my door at 2am, I don't care if they're claiming to be Jesus Christ... If they aren't, they might just have the opportunity to go FTF with him!

Personally, that I'm against "no-knock" warrants to begin with. Way too many times they have relied upon faulty or deceptive information and not verified it before executing the warrant. That IMO is irresponsible. And the vast majority of the time, no officers, or superiors, or the judges ever held accountable for injuries or killings from such mistakes.

I agree with you 110% on your post, and would react the same.

 

[etmo]

Rotor, it was toward the end of the NYT article. here is the excerpt from the story.

While the department had received court approval for a “no-knock” entry, the orders were changed before the raid to “knock and announce,” meaning that the police had to identify themselves.

My understanding is that the police did announce themselves, and that there is a citizen witness who corroborates. Have you heard otherwise?

 

[Axxe55]

My understanding is that the police did announce themselves, and that there is a citizen witness who corroborates. Have you heard otherwise?

I think I might have read something to that nature as well in one of the many articles I read about the story. But there was much conflicting information from one story to the next.

The boyfriend did acknowledge that there was banging on the door, but didn't hear them announce themselves as police, before the door was breached. The police say they did announce that it was the police.

 

[etmo]

Why police execute search warrants when folks are home is one of biggest mysteries of the universe.

Just wait till they have left to go to work, an errand, etc

Criminals can work from home, too. And if you wait until they go shopping, well, lots of stuff is closed because of covid, you might be waiting quite a while, and while the cops are waiting, the criminals can be inside murdering, raping, etc, etc.

Time is of the essence.

 

[rotor]

From what I read, in two different articles, originally the warrant was a "no-knock" warrant, but the judge changed it to an announce and enter instead. The police state they knocked, and the boyfriend did state he heard pounding on the door. So IMO, they did knock.

I read the article you quoted in it's entirety and from that article, the police did bang on the door, the people inside did not hear that it was police, only violent knocking, the guy inside did shoot one of the cops as he was in fear for his life and ALL CHARGES AGAINST HIM WERE DROPPED. Apparently the warrant was changed to announce and enter. The fact that charges against the guy inside were dropped for shooting a cop is significant though. The people inside did not know it was cops breaking in. So, what would you or I do if there was violent beating on the door, the door broken down and 3 guys come through at 2 AM? My hearing isn't what it used to be. This looks very bad for the cops. The difference is if I had time I would have had my shotgun with #4 buck and would have had a couple of dead cops.

 

[Axxe55]

Criminals can work from home, too. And if you wait until they go shopping, well, lots of stuff is closed because of covid, you might be waiting quite a while, and while the cops are waiting, the criminals can be inside murdering, raping, etc, etc.

Time is of the essence.

I'll counter that with this. Unless it's a person's life at stake, or a hostage situation, no evidence is worth anyone's life. Even one of the criminals.

If lives are at stake, then yes, it's a calculated risk and I totally agree.

 

[Dougw1515]

Knock... No Knock.... Reality is on a knock and enter it might as well be no knock. 2am [KNOCK...KNOCK...KNOCK] "Police!!! OPEN THE DOOR!!!]... [KNOCK...KNOCK...KNOCK] "Police - OPEN THE DOOR" No response... door is knocked off the hinges police enter the residence. Elapsed time <20 seconds... Just enough time for me to grab a gun, exit my bedroom and confront the sum'bitches that just broke into my house.

 

[Renegade]

The boyfriend did acknowledge that there was banging on the door, but didn't hear them announce themselves as police, before the door was breached. The police say they did announce that it was the police.

Entirely possible both are telling the truth.

 

[Axxe55]

I read the article you quoted in it's entirety and from that article, the police did bang on the door, the people inside did not hear that it was police, only violent knocking, the guy inside did shoot one of the cops as he was in fear for his life and ALL CHARGES AGAINST HIM WERE DROPPED. Apparently the warrant was changed to announce and enter. The fact that charges against the guy inside were dropped for shooting a cop is significant though. The people inside did not know it was cops breaking in. So, what would you or I do if there was violent beating on the door, the door broken down and 3 guys come through at 2 AM? My hearing isn't what it used to be. This looks very bad for the cops. The difference is if I had time I would have had my shotgun with #4 buck and would have had a couple of dead cops.

Rotor, this is a bad situation for everyone. I'm trying to remain objective as possible, and see things that are wrong on both sides and things that happened on both sides, that I would have done the same.

Sad fact is, someone died as a result. She didn't deserve to die. And it's very possible she may have been an innocent bystander, but maybe not a well from some articles. One drug dealer states, she helped him "launder" his drug money and was paid for that. Now is that true? I have no idea.

 

[Axxe55]

Entirely possible both are telling the truth.

Exactly. They very well could have announced and he didn't hear them.

Good point Renegade.

 

[busykngt]

...I saw them interview Al Sharpton and he is not happy....

Al Sharpton hasn't been a happy human being since about 1959.

 

[etmo]

I'll counter that with this. Unless it's a person's life at stake, or a hostage situation, no evidence is worth anyone's life. Even one of the criminals.

If lives are at stake, then yes, it's a calculated risk and I totally agree.

OK, but I'll counter by saying...when was the last time criminals pre-registered their intent to murder or rape or otherwise put lives at risk? IOW, it's not possible to know when lives are not at stake. In any event, the magistrate issuing the warrant needs to make these considerations, not the police.

Separation of powers applies here, too. The police are just executing the will of the magistrate. If the magistrate believes that there's no need to rush, and there will be excessive risk because of the lateness of the hour, then the magistrate can decline to issue the warrant.

Too much blame on the police, where it does not belong, imo.

 

[rotor]

Entirely possible both are telling the truth.

DA must have believed the boyfriend as charges were dismissed. He shot a cop and charges dismissed. Unless it was a BLM racial justice thing. Who knows anymore?

 

[Axxe55]

Al Sharpton hasn't been a happy human being since about 1959.

If you looked in the mirror, and saw that face staring back at you, would you be happy?

 

[Renegade]

Criminals can work from home, too. And if you wait until they go shopping, well, lots of stuff is closed because of covid, you might be waiting quite a while, and while the cops are waiting, the criminals can be inside murdering, raping, etc, etc.

Time is of the essence.

nice try, but almost nothing was closed due to COVID when she was killed.

I can see if you have been sitting on the house for a few days and nobody has left, you may have to go in.

But to not even try is reckless, note police are often killed too, so a lot of police lives could be saved with a little extra effort

 

[Axxe55]

OK, but I'll counter by saying...when was the last time criminals pre-registered their intent to murder or rape or otherwise put lives at risk? IOW, it's not possible to know when lives are not at stake. In any event, the magistrate issuing the warrant needs to make these considerations, not the police.

Separation of powers applies here, too. The police are just executing the will of the magistrate. If the magistrate believes that there's no need to rush, and there will be excessive risk because of the lateness of the hour, then the magistrate can decline to issue the warrant.

Too much blame on the police, where it does not belong, imo.

Etmo, I don't totally disagree with you. But In this case, I do believe there is enough blame to go around for all involved parties.

 

[rotor]

If you looked in the mirror, and saw that face staring back at you, would you be happy?

He looks worse since he had that fat boy surgery.