Hilton Yam on the 1911

[TAVM]

I'm not sure if I agree with that. I would be willing to bet that most glock 21 pistols are putting out groups that would stack up well against any 1911(examples below). I think that the perception that a 1911 is more accurate than a glock isn't based on the accuracy of the pistol, but the ease in a shooter achieving that accuracy. The 1911 trigger is the most obvious example of this.

In terms of plastic wonders standing out, reliability is one place, but it is hard to overlook capacity.

Well...I was being a little facetious with my response. It's the canned response you'll get from just about every 1911 die-hard out there. To be honest, I just recently got into 1911's and previously owned nothing but polymer guns. I like the platform, even amidst the perceived or experienced finiky-ness. I've had the experience to handle a few different 1911's, and only one gave me shit. The small carry (3") barrel. But that was to be expected given that the original design was for a 5". The other ones (all were govt or commander sized) gave no issues ever, even during break-in.

My glocks I could shoot quite well, but to be honest all I ever used was 9mm. I'm thinking hard about going back to a 19 (and an additional 21) setup...but I've read the 21 is pretty horrible beyond 7-10 yards. Hell even Hickock (see YouTube) was havin trouble shooting it at distance! Lol

I'll concede the capacity point, when you concede the pistol whipping advantage.

 

[Acera]

Reliability, fit in my hand, caliber and decent combat accuracy are the primary things I look for in a defensive pistol. Magazine capacity is next. Way down the list is what it looks like, it's historical significance, how many people have it, or how many manufacturers make a copy of it.

Most all the modern .45s have good or better combat accuracy and are very reliable.

I love my Colts and Kimber 1911's but they would not be my first choice today for a only 1 handgun situation. My last training class I took the FNP-45 and had zero failures. My LEO buddy had to borrow my 1911 to finish the class after his Colt 1911 broke.


It's hard to keep emotions and myths out of these type of discussions. Like a lot of guns out there, the 1911 elicits a lot of hyperbole.

 

[NOLA Jack]

As for the reliability issue: I give a skeptical eye to those trainers who damn a gun as unreliable when it doesn't make it through a 5000-rd. course without a hiccup. Most carry guns aren't made for high-round torture tests....they're made to conceal well and work when called upon. If your carry gun can fire a number of rounds equal to the amount of ammo you carry on your person on a regular basis without issue, then it's reliable enough for carry.


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How many rounds should a gun be able to regularly fire without malfunction for you to consider it reliable? I don't think Yam is asking for too high of a round count in his classes. Tiny mags drop round counts.

 

[Big Dipper]

So what happened to the 1911 reliability since March 15, 1911 and today?

At that time it performed flawlessly with the following test:

"6000 rounds were to be fired in a series of 100. Between series, the pistols were allowed to cool for five minutes. The pistols were to be examined, cleaned, and oiled after every 1000 rounds."

 

[NOLA Jack]

Well...I was being a little facetious with my response. It's the canned response you'll get from just about every 1911 die-hard out there. To be honest, I just recently got into 1911's and previously owned nothing but polymer guns. I like the platform, even amidst the perceived or experienced finiky-ness. I've had the experience to handle a few different 1911's, and only one gave me shit. The small carry (3") barrel. But that was to be expected given that the original design was for a 5". The other ones (all were govt or commander sized) gave no issues ever, even during break-in.

My glocks I could shoot quite well, but to be honest all I ever used was 9mm. I'm thinking hard about going back to a 19 (and an additional 21) setup...but I've read the 21 is pretty horrible beyond 7-10 yards. Hell even Hickock (see YouTube) was havin trouble shooting it at distance! Lol

I'll concede the capacity point, when you concede the pistol whipping advantage.

Having seen it posted seriously enough times, I hope you can understand my confusion. You've got a deal on the pistol whip, although I think better than a dozen rounds of 45 in the grip makes a good cudgel.

 

[NOLA Jack]

So what happened to the 1911 reliability since March 15, 1911 and today?

At that time it performed flawlessly with the following test:

"6000 rounds were to be fired in a series of 100. Between series, the pistols were allowed to cool for five minutes. The pistols were to be examined, cleaned, and oiled after every 1000 rounds."

I think that is the strict maintenance schedule people keep suggesting is required of the 1911. Since then, hollow points have happened.

 

[NOLA Jack]

My last training class I took the FNP-45 and had zero failures.

Have you had any issues with yours feeding cheap FMJ rounds, specifically WWB? I got rid of mine after the longer rounds kept catching inside of the mags.

 

[jrbfishn]

I have put just about every kind of 9mm anmo on the shelf thru mine as well as 100 grn rn and 90 gr hp. Even rapid fire.


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[qwiksdraw]

The number of 1911 manufacturers has increased tenfold in the last 30 years and sales have never been higher. More competition shooters use the 1911 over any other platform. The aftermarket and accessory industry built around the 1911 has grown to....well, let's just say it's big.

Yes, this proves the 1911 is obsolete.

 

[seeker_two]

The number of 1911 manufacturers has increased tenfold in the last 30 years and sales have never been higher. More competition shooters use the 1911 over any other platform. The aftermarket and accessory industry built around the 1911 has grown to....well, let's just say it's big.

Yes, this proves the 1911 is obsolete.

You can say the same thing about the SAA.....


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[NOLA Jack]

I have put just about every kind of 9mm anmo on the shelf thru mine as well as 100 grn rn and 90 gr hp. Even rapid fire.


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Your 1911, FNH, glock....?

 

[40Arpent]

The number of 1911 manufacturers has increased tenfold in the last 30 years and sales have never been higher. More competition shooters use the 1911 over any other platform. The aftermarket and accessory industry built around the 1911 has grown to....well, let's just say it's big.

Yes, this proves the 1911 is obsolete.

I don't think anyone is saying it's obsolete, and Mr. Yam has just a wee bit more experience and knowledge with the platform than any of us here, so his opinions carry some weight for those of us who appreciate the education. As has already been pointed out also, there are plenty of other respected 1911 experts that agree with him. I still love my 1911's, and don't think any less of them because of what these guys are all saying, but it's good information to have.

As for "More competition shooters use the 1911 over any other platform"....is that just your opinion, or do you have facts to back it up? From what I have seen, the number of 1911's used across all shooting sports seems to be dwindling at a very fast rate (but that's just my perception).

 

[Andy]

So what happened to the 1911 reliability since March 15, 1911 and today?

At that time it performed flawlessly with the following test:

"6000 rounds were to be fired in a series of 100. Between series, the pistols were allowed to cool for five minutes. The pistols were to be examined, cleaned, and oiled after every 1000 rounds."

Multiple manufacturers getting involved, leading to varying tolerances.

The design works well when each individual pistol is made to the 1911/1911a1 specs, hand-tuned at the factory (eg. extractor) - which they tend not to do these days - and fed FMJ ammo from a tapered-lip magazine. Once there's deviation from that, it takes some expertise to troubleshoot and tune.

Modern pistols just don't need all that fine tuning - and as much as I'm a die-hard 1911 fan, I wouldn't recommend one for a first pistol. I'm even looking at the FN or the M&P in .45 to supplement my 1911.

In short, I don't disagree with Hilton at all.

Edit: Hilton's partner, Tim, gives his opinions here: http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=3250

 

[London]

and only one gave me shit. The small carry (3") barrel.

Sub-compact 1911s are notoriously hard to get running correctly. As the frame size shrinks so does the amount of time everything has to perform correctly.

 

[NOLA Jack]

The number of 1911 manufacturers has increased tenfold in the last 30 years and sales have never been higher. More competition shooters use the 1911 over any other platform. The aftermarket and accessory industry built around the 1911 has grown to....well, let's just say it's big.

Yes, this proves the 1911 is obsolete.

Who said the 1911 is obsolete?

 

[Acera]

Have you had any issues with yours feeding cheap FMJ rounds, specifically WWB? I got rid of mine after the longer rounds kept catching inside of the mags.

Nope, that is what I shot. Needed to save money so got the cheapest brass cased ammo I could, i.e. WWB. Went through about 550 rounds. Cleaned it at the end of the first day, about 1/2 way through the handgun drills.

 

[TAVM]

That's it. I'm selling my 1911's and buying a g19 and g21

 

[jrbfishn]

My 1911's are Rock Island, love them
To be honest, i have had inexperienced shooters that ha trouble with them. But it was more shooter than 1911

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[kyletxria1911a1]

My first edc was a cz40p good gun. But then for me the light shined on me and lo my love for the 1911 was born.
From then on it was and sitll to this day the only Handgun platform i cared to learn
The old heads here truly know how i feel about the 1911.
But the man ran them for years, and has grown weary of them.( didnt know on could do that)

Thats why the US is sooooooo great a man can change his feelings at any time.
Without fear of retribution!!! The man ran em hard, depended on them with his life.
He dosent like them anymore. Ok by me.
But for me alpha and omega the 1911!!

 

[kyletxria1911a1]

Ps.. Thanks tx red sig, and tx1911 for learning me