How do you REALLY feel about plastic guns?

[robertc1024]

Only 3 of my pistols have plastic frames. A Ruger Mk III just because its a great pistol, a Ruger LC9S Pro because it's small and light, and a Canik TP9SFX just because I wanted a modern pistol. Let's just say I prefer the steel.

 

[SQLGeek]

This post makes me want to buy a Glock 45 and put these G17 magazines I have to work. I think I'll put my weapon light and a red dot on it. Oh the great triggering.

 

[SQLGeek]

But to be accurate (more important than being fair), those steel rails are molded in place in the polymer. They provide the sliding surface, but the polymer still absorbs the full load of the slide slamming back and forth.

Since we're concerned about accuracy...

High impact is actually where polymers are more resilient than metal.

What he said.

Polymers aren't exactly new especially in heavy duty, industrial applications. Nylon has been around for 80 some odd years.

There are many examples of Glocks out there with incredible round counts on them and still running. I can't say I've ever heard of a frame failing at the steel inserts short of a kaboom. But then that's an ammo issue.

 

[oldag]

High impact is actually where polymers are more resilient than metal.

Their elongation may be better (haven't looked at that in years). Yet they have much lower yield strengths. And the latter is what keeps things held together.

SQL - Since we are talking about mechanical engineering and wanting accuracy.

Bubble gum is more "resilient" (and resilient is not an engineering property used in design) than steel. Want to use a gun with a bubble gum frame? Nah, didn't think so.

I don't recall saying that polymer is a high failure risk. I just said that I am uncomfortable with polymer gun frames based on past (granted, long past) experience with composites. Quality control and nondestructive testing are much more difficult with composites. And that is plain fact from someone who has been involved in such. Much more trust has to be placed in the process.

Just don't try to tell me that polymer is structurally superior to steel in this application. It may work, but it ain't superior.

 

[oldag]

I wouldn't carry it if I couldn't shoot it well, so best is subjective.

In most cases I can shoot my plastics as well as a comparable metal frame.

Not talking about shooting it well. Talking about the quality and workmanship of the gun being such that the gun is extremely reliable. And no, there is not a direct correlation between price and reliability, but there is some correlation.

Simply put, I would not buy a cheap gun for the reason of not worrying about it being confiscated if I had to use it. Nor will I think twice about carrying the most expensive pistols I own.

 

[Moonpie]

What round for plastic guns?

 

[Moonpie]

I want to preface this by saying, all my semi handguns are plastic, I shoot glocks and m&p’s and every plastic gun I have ever shot did so just fine HOWEVER, if there was an all steel gun out there that could provide me with all of the same amenities that my glocks/ m&p’s do, I would carry that. I prefer the overall feel of steel guns as well as the weight. I dont care about pistol weight honestly.

I would like to know what everyone else thinks though.

 

[CyberWolf]

Their elongation may be better (haven't looked at that in years). Yet they have much lower yield strengths. And the latter is what keeps things held together.
.....

Bubble gum is more "resilient" (and resilient is not an engineering property used in design) than steel. Want to use a gun with a bubble gum frame? Nah, didn't think so.

I don't recall saying that polymer is a high failure risk. I just said that I am uncomfortable with polymer gun frames based on past (granted, long past) experience with composites. Quality control and nondestructive testing are much more difficult with composites. And that is plain fact from someone who has been involved in such. Much more trust has to be placed in the process.

^Can't disagree with any of that (except for one bit as noted below), and bolded what I think is the most important bit, but it's missing some additional data points that can enhance perspective...

(tl;dr - "rabbit-hole" warning).....
-----
I should say first, however, that "Resiliency" is indeed a legit term which can be defined & quantitatively/comparatively measured. By enumerating potential failure modes, conditions, and probability of occurrence, we can (though a combination of observation, sampling, destructive testing, and/or predictive/composite analysis) begin to derive meaningful metrics such as "Mean Time Between Failure" (MTBF, aka MTTF), etc., and can align those with conditional failure-modes, blah, blah, blah....
-----

For example, what are we measuring 'resilience' from? extreme temps or temp fluctuation? Corrosion/oxidation? Material degredation or embrittlement, or brute-force torture?

Sure, I have no doubt that a good SS revolver or an SA with 17-4ph frame/slide will do better at being run over by a truck or being used for batting practice, but that doesn't mean a polymer frame can't hold up as well or possibly better in many conditions (short of fire, which would probably wreck the steel just as effectively, if not as visibly...)

You'll get lemons in both categories, those can only be minimized through good engineering/qa - you'll never get rid of them completely at any kind of manufacturing scale.

Bottom line - all guns need love, even the chunky ones! (just keep it safe and legal! )

This may be of interest:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/materials-science/polymer-engineering

 

[Charlie]

You may be looking too deep, sir! Too much information might make more issues than not.

 

[Big Dipper]

What round for plastic guns?

Nerf dart.

 

[DyeF9]

Not talking about shooting it well. Talking about the quality and workmanship of the gun being such that the gun is extremely reliable. And no, there is not a direct correlation between price and reliability, but there is some correlation.

Simply put, I would not buy a cheap gun for the reason of not worrying about it being confiscated if I had to use it. Nor will I think twice about carrying the most expensive pistols I own.

I carry my most expensive metal frame and my plastics. I buy them because they're reliable, accurate and ergonomic. If they weren't reliable, I wouldn't own them, with the exception of sentimental value, and if that's the case it wouldn't be a carry pistol. My point is it's nice that it's cheaper, just a convenient bonus, not a requirement. An added convenient plus for metal frames is I find the perceived recoil to be more pleasant, since they're typically heavier.

Also I do not believe polymer pistol frames are composites. Both a well designed and manufactured metal frame vs polymer frame could easily be structurally equal when it comes to handling loading and pressures that are required of a handgun, assuming no design flaws or error in manufacturing. Added strength over what is required for a lifetime of function may exist in one vs the other, but it makes no difference because they'll still both outlive their original owner.

 

[Vaquero]

I like 'em.

 

[zackmars]

 

[HKShooter65]

Polymer is the future of everything.

Look around and you will see it.

Is silicone a polymer?

I see it everywhere.
Travels in packs of two.
I like it.

 

[HKShooter65]

I think my first seriously plastic gun was my 1984 Steyr Mannlicher GmbH AUG.

It's still an absolute delight after shooting it for over 1/3 century.

It'll last far longer than will I.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

If you were a lady, specifically a lady who had done her duty of delivering three babies into this world and has the bladder to show for it, and when well hydrated has to drop and pull up her drawers with a gun belt and pistol attached about once each hour... no way you would be loving a heavy metal firearm. Plastic would be your friend.

 

[satx78247]

tO aLL,

personally, I do NOT care for either striker-fired or plastic guns.

My next 2 handguns will be "as new" S&W Model 469 "police surplus" & will likely outlast me, even being often "out on the salt".

The handgun that I most regret selling was a S&W Model 639 that I got "for a song" from a THP trooper, who bought it new as a "backup" but fired exactly one magazine through it before deciding that he just didn't like it at all.
(Like so many handguns that I've had over the decades, an officer offered me a nice profit, so I let it go.)

yours, satx

 

[BMF500]

I like my steel guns the best, but own and like polymers too (just not polymer revolvers). Each has it's function and place.

 

[TX OMFS]

The funny thing about that though is you hear a lot of complaining about pistols with polymer frames and not so much about rifles or carbines with them.

Good point.

 

[Big Green]

I bought my first XD in ‘05 because I didn’t want a Glock and XD had interchangeable back straps. Did a little firing over the years but not much because of where I was stationed, Japan and NY.

Fast forward, bought a Glock because it was green and then took it to the range. Again, not much of a pistol guy but I was a lot more accurate than I expected after hearing/reading about different grip angle and sight acquisition. I’m sold, I’ll be buying more soon.

Most of my pistol experience is with the Beretta 92 I used at the range once year for 5 or so years.

I also prefer ARs over most other rifles, might be why I like the feel of plastic, it’s familiar.