How NOT to carry concealed

[matefrio]

Update on the victim.
Family: Long recovery ahead for woman accidentally shot in rear at restaurant | khou.com | KHOU.com Home Page

Prayers are something Barker’s family said she could use a lot of right now. According to her son’s journal entries on the website, Diana Barker has been in a fight for her life.

"The bullet’s upward trajectory hit my mom on the left buttocks and then continued through her hip, into her abdomen and ended at the right side of her chest," her sons wrote on the blog. "Thankfully the bullet barely missed a major artery and missed all vital organs (liver, kidneys, heart, spleen) but made a mess of the small and large intestines."

The Barker brothers also discuss gun safety and the fact that they believe what happened at Raffa’s on January 13 was preventable.

"What we ask is that anyone who legally carries a gun "remember" that they have it, ensure the gun has a functional safety, that the safety is in use, and not carry unreasonably dangerous weapons," wrote Barker’s sons in another journal entry.

 

[majormadmax]

Update on the victim.
Family: Long recovery ahead for woman accidentally shot in rear at restaurant | khou.com | KHOU.com Home Page

Prayers are something Barker’s family said she could use a lot of right now. According to her son’s journal entries on the website, Diana Barker has been in a fight for her life.

"The bullet’s upward trajectory hit my mom on the left buttocks and then continued through her hip, into her abdomen and ended at the right side of her chest," her sons wrote on the blog. "Thankfully the bullet barely missed a major artery and missed all vital organs (liver, kidneys, heart, spleen) but made a mess of the small and large intestines."

The Barker brothers also discuss gun safety and the fact that they believe what happened at Raffa’s on January 13 was preventable.

"What we ask is that anyone who legally carries a gun "remember" that they have it, ensure the gun has a functional safety, that the safety is in use, and not carry unreasonably dangerous weapons," wrote Barker’s sons in another journal entry.

They are absolutely correct and I applaud them for not taking the usual "all guns are bad" approach so common after such an incident.

I pray Diana Barker makes a quick and full recovery. This could have been so easily prevented...

 

[SC-Texas]

This comment about private property keeps coming up.

While I do not totally agree with the private proerty concept when it comes to my right to protect myself which is one of the inalienable rights along with property rights, this restaurant simply is not private property.

It is a business. That is open to the public. Therefiore it is no longer private property.

One example is race: The owner of Raffas cannot deny service to a black person because he is black. The fact that he owns the business and leases the space simply does not allow him to do something of this nature.

I beleive that my right to protect myself with the most efficient tool available should not be infringed simply because the owner is a hoplophobe and does not beleive in the second amendment.

 

[majormadmax]

Believe what you want, but it is a private business and therefore private property, and the owner does have the right to refuse anyone he/she feels as long as the individual's civil rights are not violated (such as in your example). Just because it is open to the public does not make it public property!

The Federal Civil Rights Act guarantees all people the right to "full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin."

The right of public accommodation is also guaranteed to disabled citizens under the Americans with Disabilities Act, which precludes discrimination by businesses on the basis of disability.

There's nothing's about carrying firearms, and as we know in Texas, 30.06 allows the property owner to deny that privilege (which it is on someone else’s property).

 

[SC-Texas]

Beleive whatever you want . . . . it ain't private property when its open to the public.

Further, they have no obligation to protect your life of anyone elses life.

That is where I have a huge problem with 30.06 in general.

 

[shilohshooters]

The GM/Chef of Raffa's called into Guns Over Texas on Am 700 (Saturdays, 4pm!), as we were talking about this, and told us that they DO NOT have a 30.06, nor are they considering posting one, in spite of the actions of this jerk off. He watched the whole scene unfold from start to finish and said the shooters negligence was startling. Apparently, he swept his jacket back to show a friend that he was carrying a gun, and he somehow hooked the Derringer with either his hand or the jacket lining, jerking it out of the holster and jettisoning it to infamy. The Chef, who is also a partner at this restaurant, is a CHL holder who shoots regularly. Don't boycott Raffa's, support them as they support gun rights.

 

[majormadmax]

Beleive whatever you want . . . . it ain't private property when its open to the public.

I'll believe what I know, if it's private property, it's private property! Whether it's open to the public or not does not mater, it's ownership that makes that determination.

Further, they have no obligation to protect your life of anyone elses life.

No one ever said they did, but they do have some liability. Either way, they still have the right to decide who they want on their property.

That is where I have a huge problem with 30.06 in general.

I'm sure you're not the only one, but it's still the law.

 

[majormadmax]

The GM/Chef of Raffa's called into Guns Over Texas on Am 700 (Saturdays, 4pm!), as we were talking about this, and told us that they DO NOT have a 30.06, nor are they considering posting one, in spite of the actions of this jerk off. He watched the whole scene unfold from start to finish and said the shooters negligence was startling. Apparently, he swept his jacket back to show a friend that he was carrying a gun, and he somehow hooked the Derringer with either his hand or the jacket lining, jerking it out of the holster and jettisoning it to infamy. The Chef, who is also a partner at this restaurant, is a CHL holder who shoots regularly. Don't boycott Raffa's, support them as they support gun rights.

That's good news, considering the amount of negative publicity this has received; but it is odd in that initial reports were that they did have a sign prohibiting guns in their establishment. Why would anyone make such a statement (unless it was the press)?

Regardless, this demonstrates how quickly one ignorant individual can put us all in hot water. As the old Air Force saying goes, “one person shits their pants, and everyone ends up wearing diapers!” There could have been significant ramifications if this caught fire, had the family and restaurant been more anti-gun and decided to pursue this in the media, I am sure some low-level liberal politician would have latched on and ran with it.

Since it was technically a shooting, will there be an automatic grand jury investigation? I hope so, and if the above is true than I also hope that the guy with the Derringer—if found guilty—loses his CHL permanently. I also hope he is responsible for the medical expenses as the result of all this. I think we all understand that accidents can and do occur, but this was avoidable and his idiotic actions were a contributing factor….

 

[SC-Texas]

I'll believe what I know, if it's private property, it's private property! Whether it's open to the public or not does not mater, it's ownership that makes that determination.

Well they don't own it. they lease it. Not that that really matters.

AND as we have demonstrated, they do not have the absolute right to determine who enters their property. that right is already abridged. i.e. the civil rights laws. In this case, the right to protect oneself is one of the basic human rights and if you have read the constitution is enumerated above the right of private property in the constitution. Its second behind freedom of speech for a reason.

Now we can get into a debate about whether the right to exclude others (which is what the right to private property is really about) is paramount to your right to protect yourself. Which basiuc right is paramount?

No one ever said they did, but they do have some liability. Either way, they still have the right to decide who they want on their property.

Actually in Texas they have almost ZERO liability. As in None. Been there and done that.

I'm sure you're not the only one, but it's still the law.

Never argued that 30.06 wasn't the law. Its a law that should be changed and businesses that post 30.06 should be protested and harassed until they remove the signs.

Look at it like this . . . . if the restaruant said no service to black people, Quannell Ten would be there with his hood rats in an instant.

If Raffa's said no service females, NOW would be protesting on its doorstep instantly.

If Raffa's said no service to homosexuals, one of those groups would be there in an instant.

But when the owner of Raffa's throws pro second amendment rights people under the bus where are we? Well, read this thread, most of you are saying to lay down, don't make waves, be quiet, Don't worry about it, its his right if he doesn't want us there, etc.

WHAT THE **** is wrong with us as a group?

This attitude has allowed other governments and our own government to abridge our rights on many occasions!

That hasn't worked in the past and that attitude hasn't got us concealed carry in all the states.

Basically this Go along to get along attitude has never worked.

It got us the following anti second amendment legislation:
1986 Hughes manedment banning civilian machineguns
1989 Import Ban
1994 AWB ban

I will not stand quietly when a local business takes an anti second amendment position.

 

[matefrio]

I have about the same thoughts as SC. Another annoyance to me is a public place with a 51% sign. As a teetotaler those are frustrating.

 

[codeman]

After reading this story I would like to point out four lessons to be learned that I’ve always believed in.
1. Carry a modern firearm. Modern firearms, both autos and revolvers, have internal safeties that prevent firing when dropped. If you have an antique, don’t carry it. My grandfather’s S&W model 1917 38 special sits at home, not in my holster and I keep the hammer on an empty chanber for this very reason.
2. Put it in a holster. I know now that he did have a holster, but the initial reports made it sound like he didn’t. Holsters aren’t just for comfort they secure the firearm. Holsters that are custom fit to the gun are preferred. If you’re going to carry it in your pocket, get a pocket holster.
3. We are responsible for every bullet that leaves the barrel of our guns. Period, no exceptions, end of story.
4. Don’t be a dumb ass. By carrying a firearm we are held to a higher standard. Respect that responsibility and act accordingly. I can’t believe this jackass was showing it off to a friend in a public place. If he did, he deserves anything he gets. I hope he at least gets his CHL pulled.

 

[texas1willy2]

Is there a reason you don't see signs anymore that say "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone?"

 

[texas1willy2]

To me this story took a turn when someone posted that the ladies intestines were also damaged as the bullet exited her butt and before it lodged in her chest.
That can turn into serious problems, if the intestinal fluid leaked or is still leaking.

Maybe we should check into doing something for her as the responsible side of the gun community?

 

[shilohshooters]

[/QUOTE]"But when the owner of Raffa's throws pro second amendment rights people under the bus where are we? Well, read this thread, most of you are saying to lay down, don't make waves, be quiet, Don't worry about it, its his right if he doesn't want us there.

I will not stand quietly when a local business takes an anti second amendment position.[/QUOTE]

Seeing as I spoke directly to the managing partner of Raffa's, and he assured me and our entire listening audience live on the air, that there was no or would there ever be a 30.06 sign in their establishment, I am having a hard time figuring out why you still see them as a anti 2A business. The only sign at Raffa's is the very common "UNLICENSCED firearms prohibited". You and your CHL are just fine. I certainly don't believe everything I read in the paper, but when I speak to the man that witnessed the whole negligent incident, and he happens to be a partner in the business, and he professes his support for licensed gun carry, and he gives us ZERO reason not to believe him, live on AM 700 KSEV, then I think we should probably see them as more 2A FRIENDLY...

 

[TheDan]

Another one proves my point that any idiot can carry. Doesn't mean they should. I support the right to carry, it is just too easy for someone to get a license. I quit working with civilians, because too many think the right to carry means they should. For the most part most they have little to no training before or after. I seen many people carrying in public and you could see the outline of the gun. I hope they make an example of him for endangering the public. You can't make some people understand that they are responsible for every round that comes out of the gun. Whether they meant to do it or not. Hit what you aim at or do not carry. Your livelihood is on the line every time you pick up the weapon.

Mike

Please try not to be so elitist. I know sometimes it seems logical to do so, but people as a whole should not be judged by the actions of a few.

You mentioned not working with civilians anymore, what branch of the service are you in?

 

[SC-Texas]

"But when the owner of Raffa's throws pro second amendment rights people under the bus where are we? Well, read this thread, most of you are saying to lay down, don't make waves, be quiet, Don't worry about it, its his right if he doesn't want us there.

I will not stand quietly when a local business takes an anti second amendment position.

Seeing as I spoke directly to the managing partner of Raffa's, and he assured me and our entire listening audience live on the air, that there was no or would there ever be a 30.06 sign in their establishment, I am having a hard time figuring out why you still see them as a anti 2A business. The only sign at Raffa's is the very common "UNLICENSCED firearms prohibited". You and your CHL are just fine. I certainly don't believe everything I read in the paper, but when I speak to the man that witnessed the whole negligent incident, and he happens to be a partner in the business, and he professes his support for licensed gun carry, and he gives us ZERO reason not to believe him, live on AM 700 KSEV, then I think we should probably see them as more 2A FRIENDLY...

1. Fixed your quotes

2. Agreed.

3. I need to listen to your radio program. are you podcasting it?

 

[shilohshooters]

Thanks for the tech support. No matter how many times I hit the keyboard with my club, it still wouldnt work! Podcasts are on the way! Saturdays at 4pm we go live. KSEV Radio – 700 AM to stream, or AM 700 on the dial. 281-558-5738 to talk all things that go bang...