I just dont get it

[Hoji]

So, do you not think it's possible to have a congenial discussion with a customer on differing viewpoints?

Of course it is possible. Do you think it is appropriate for your employees to risk offending a customer and losing his/her business while they are on duty working for you? The customer is always right.

 

[CZPistol]

Do you think it is appropriate for your employees to risk offending a customer and losing his/her business while they are on duty working for you? The customer is always right.

Personally, if I were in the OP's shoes, there would be no risk of offending the customer. But, given the obvious emotions of the OP on this issue, I think there would be great risk.

 

[Hoji]

Personally, if I were in the OP's shoes, there would be no risk of offending the customer. But, given the obvious emotions of the OP on this issue, I think there would be great risk.

And if you were my employee you would be unemployed for engaging in a potentially hostile conversation with a customer. You do not know how some people will react to an opposing view point. The customer may well get completely bent even if presented with calm, logical opposing viewpoints. Don't believe me? Talk to a liberal/socialist democrat.

 

[zincwarrior]

WHile I disagree with the OP, I'd say he handled the conversation absolutely appropriately. While many people can stand disagreement many can't and the old mantra of "never discuss politics or religion" is a good one here.

 

[CZPistol]

And if you were my employee you would be unemployed for engaging in a potentially hostile conversation with a customer. You do not know how some people will react to an opposing view point. The customer may well get completely bent even if presented with calm, logical opposing viewpoints. Don't believe me? Talk to a liberal/socialist democrat.

WHile I disagree with the OP, I'd say he handled the conversation absolutely appropriately. While many people can stand disagreement many can't and the old mantra of "never discuss politics or religion" is a good one here.

Good points, I will admit.

 

[fishingsetx]

Personally, if I were in the OP's shoes, there would be no risk of offending the customer. But, given the obvious emotions of the OP on this issue, I think there would be great risk.

Lol, the conversation would have went nowhere. It was obvious by his tone and his wording (and the 30 min conversation we had) that the discussion would have went nowhere and probably ended up with him mad and me shaking my head. No chance of getting fired as I would have had to fire myself (now thats an idea!) Just not worth the wasted effort to try and change the mind of someone who lets their emotions get in the way of their reasoning.

Still not sure how anyone can deduce my emotions on any issue by a text based internet discussion, but think what you will. I have had the same discussion with numerous people and it has never got heated even when they were completely set on being anti OC and even anti gun (had an ex leo tell me anyone who carried was a stupid $@&% idiot). If that wasnt enough to get me riled up, the guy that was against OC sure wouldnt have.

I have said it before and ill say it again, i have no issue with anyones personal choice in how they carry or even if they carry! Depending on what i am doing that day, I may CC, OC, or not carry at all That is a personal choice and personally, i enjoy having the right to choose! I do take issue with someone who has just stated that he was a rep of a gun rights org stating reasons he is against getting one of our rights back and using an example of something that, as far as i know, has never happened no matter what his personal views happen to be. If what he was stating had or was happening regularly, i wouldnt take issue with it.

I had no issue with him stating he didnt OC because he thought CC gave him the element of suprise (I actually agree with him on that). It was the "you'll be shot first because the bad guy will take out the guy with a gun first" statement that i have an issue with.

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[zincwarrior]

I do take issue with someone who has just stated that he was a rep of a gun rights org stating reasons he is against getting one of our rights back and using an example of something that, as far as i know, has never happened no matter what his personal views happen to be.

respectfully thats not what you posted. You post ONLY said why he would never OC. Those are two completely separate and distinct things.

I would never OC in an urban context, but thats completely separate from the fact I am ok with people having the right to do so.

 

[Fernando_Sucre]

Because that is what was spewed all the way up to OC passing! Gunfights at high noon, blood running in the streets, what about the children, guns being yanked out of holsters, etc etc etc! Show me any instance where a person was openly carrying (other than leo) and a criminal walked in, shot the open carrier first (ie targeted him because he was carrying openly), and then proceeded to carry out whatever crime they had come there to do.

Like i said before, i dont care how you choose to carry or why. I just wish people who are supossed to be pro gun would quit spouting misinformation and emotion based bs that does nothing to help push gun rights and will probably actually hurt in the long run. We need all the help we can get and a comment like that could very well sway someone on the fence to oppose open carry especially coming from someone who is supposed to be representing gun owners. I never said the guy was anti gun, but from my convesation, im pretty sure he was anti OC.

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This guy gets it. I've been seeing way too many anti OC posts on this board and others I frequent and its always backed by the same "you're gonna get shot first or element of surprise" BS. This concealed carry elitism is really starting to bother me.

 

[zincwarrior]

Elitism? It is a view based on experiences by the other OCers in Texas-police officers.

 

[CZPistol]

Still not sure how anyone can deduce my emotions on any issue by a text based internet discussion,

Just a wild guess here, but it may have been all the exclamation marks, emoticons, and comments about bloodletting, etc., that might have "suckered" me into interpreting certain emotions.

 

[Fernando_Sucre]

Elitism? It is a view based on experiences by the other OCers in Texas-police officers.

No it isn't. Which OCer was shot first?

 

[fishingsetx]

Just a wild guess here, but it may have been all the exclamation marks, emoticons, and comments about bloodletting, etc., that might have "suckered" me into interpreting certain emotions.

No problem, more for emphasis and to try and keep things civil than to show emotion. Im about as level headed a person as you'll meet. Thats why sometines i hate text based conversations and think that is part of the issue with our current "offended by everything" society.

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[Younggun]

Elitism? It is a view based on experiences by the other OCers in Texas-police officers.

I don't put all that much weight in the opinions of police officers. Have several in my family and the opinions are often based on personal bias. Same as everyone else's. They tend to have no more experience in OC outside of their work than we do. And experience OCing as LE is no more relevant than my OC experience on the military.


Sent from my HAL 9000

 

[zincwarrior]

No it isn't. Which OCer was shot first?

Would you like a list of police who have been shot by their own firearms is that what you're asking?

 

[Rattler60]

Lol, the conversation would have went nowhere. It was obvious by his tone and his wording (and the 30 min conversation we had) that the discussion would have went nowhere and probably ended up with him mad and me shaking my head. No chance of getting fired as I would have had to fire myself (now thats an idea!) Just not worth the wasted effort to try and change the mind of someone who lets their emotions get in the way of their reasoning.

Still not sure how anyone can deduce my emotions on any issue by a text based internet discussion, but think what you will. I have had the same discussion with numerous people and it has never got heated even when they were completely set on being anti OC and even anti gun (had an ex leo tell me anyone who carried was a stupid $@&% idiot). If that wasnt enough to get me riled up, the guy that was against OC sure wouldnt have.

I have said it before and ill say it again, i have no issue with anyones personal choice in how they carry or even if they carry! Depending on what i am doing that day, I may CC, OC, or not carry at all That is a personal choice and personally, i enjoy having the right to choose! I do take issue with someone who has just stated that he was a rep of a gun rights org stating reasons he is against getting one of our rights back and using an example of something that, as far as i know, has never happened no matter what his personal views happen to be. If what he was stating had or was happening regularly, i wouldnt take issue with it.

I had no issue with him stating he didnt OC because he thought CC gave him the element of suprise (I actually agree with him on that). It was the "you'll be shot first because the bad guy will take out the guy with a gun first" statement that i have an issue with.

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Why do you feel it's so important to as you say change his mind? I don't understand the mindset of a fellow pro gun person so dead set on shoving their OC view on someone. Kind of seems like a liberalistic attitude, think my way or your wrong. Or the whole I'm gonna . teach people to be comfortable around OC. This attitude just baffles me. My 90 yr. old Grandma might be uncomfortable about it, but be assured you're not gonna teach her jack. Chill Jesus.

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[zincwarrior]

I don't put all that much weight in the opinions of police officers. Have several in my family and the opinions are often based on personal bias. Same as everyone else's. They tend to have no more experience in OC outside of their work than we do. And experience OCing as LE is no more relevant than my OC experience on the military.


Sent from my HAL 9000

I hear you. My statement was not about opinion, but actual events that have occurred.
Are there many? Nope (thankfully), but there are enough that some CCers would rather not OC, at least in some situations. Thats ok.

I do believe those events can be relevant (and more so than in the military unless you served in similar capacity) in similar circumstances.

My 90 yr. old Grandma might be uncomfortable about it, but be assured you're not gonna teach her jack.

Grannies don't take crap from nobody. here's to them!

 

[fishingsetx]

Why do you feel it's so important to as you say change his mind? I don't understand the mindset of a fellow pro gun person so dead set on shoving their OC view on someone. Kind of seems like a liberalistic attitude, think my way or your wrong. Or the whole I'm gonna . teach people to be comfortable around OC. This attitude just baffles me. My 90 yr. old Grandma might be uncomfortable about it, but be assured you're not gonna teach her jack. Chill Jesus.

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Im going to try this one more time, please reread my posts and show me where i ever said i wanted to change his mind, force OC on anyone, or talked down about anyone choosing not to OC. It is you getting worked up reading something into what i said that is just not there.

The only thing i took issue with is him stating that if someone open carries, the bad guy robbing the store they were at would just walk in and shoot them because they were OC.

I dont care how or even if you choose to carry.

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[Captain]

I thought that purpose of a forum was to explore opinions. Not attack those who have different opinion than you.

sent from a Galaxy far away

 

[Rattler60]

I read it wasn't worth the wasted effort to try and change the mind of someone who let's their emotions get in the way of their reasoning.
In other words someone who has a different opinion than you.


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[majormadmax]

Been a while since I've had to post one of these, but it appears to be overdue...

Honestly, just because someone's a NRA rep doesn't make them the subject matter expert on all things gun-related! He was simply stating his opinion and as we have learned since OC became a reality there is no shortage of those!

But who really gives a shit? I don't.