Idiot Photographer

[Hoji]

This is one of the reasons I am very particular about whom I take classes with.

I would never agree to participate in such an act, from any perspective. As a student I would have asked for my money back and packed up and left.

I know A LOT of instructors, and none would allow such negligent behavior.

You , I , and Spreadfirearms are all in agreement on Tactical Response's training methods{ this would be my asteroid coming in face}

This is , from what I hear, standard practice with TR. SFA made some pretty good comments on AR15.com in the HTF Texas on a thread posting notice that TR would be in Bastrop in September. SFA declined an invitation to shoot with them for free because of the safety practices and no one would send him a copy of their liability insurance. I am pretty sure that TR's insurance would drop them like a hot rock if they knew that having people downrange during live fire was part of their training agenda.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

So, are you saying that if you press hard enough and inward on the release button that the gun will fire? If that is the case, then surely this only happens when in single action mode and the safety disengaged, right?

NO, that's most definitely NOT what I'm saying! What I'm saying is I've seen people draw with the SERPA and press the button inward by literally curling their finger around so it is pointing straight inward and the tip is pressing the button directly inwards. It is my understanding that people have drawn in this manner under stress in training (and even some fairly experienced LE types as well) while exerting significant pressure, and maintaining that index finger orientation and level of pressure as they draw the gun. The result is as the gun and their finger clears the holster, that pressure causes their finger to fly into the triggerguard and likely slam into the trigger. I don't do this. My index finger moves in more of a brushstroke manner. Actually, you know give me a bit of time and let me see if I can get a video up here later tonight to show you exactly what I'm talking about (I'll have to add it to my SERPA review as well).

For the average civilian, and for a run of the mill pistol training class, the risk of killing another human being during a normal training class because they want to get a cool camera angle shot is simply not worth it. The tactical advantage of having complete situational awareness, as well as learning to be on the ball and safe in a team environment makes sense for those that have reached that level, especially whose professions (LE/Mil) depend on it. I have nothing against regular civy's like us doing 360 degree "team" stuff like that for those that have reached that level, I'm just saying for a run of the mill pistol class the risk just is not worth it.

 

[SIG_Fiend]

Here's a vid about the SERPA issue I mentioned:

YouTube - Blackhawk SERPA Button Issue

 

[40Arpent]

Thanks SF, I was hoping there was misunderstanding on my part. When I draw from my Serpa, my finger is in the same position it would be when not inside the trigger guard...fully extended, and I "brushstroke" (your gay term, not mine ) the release button.

 

[Big country]

Thanks SF, I was hoping there was misunderstanding on my part. When I draw from my Serpa, my finger is in the same position it would be when not inside the trigger guard...fully extended, and I "brushstroke" (your gay term, not mine ) the release button.

and what would you call it?

 

[juwaba98]

and what would you call it?

He prefers to "finger bang" his holsters.

<ducking>

 

[ZX9RCAM]

and what would you call it?

Slap that B***H!

 

[Big country]

Or the slap n' slide method.
And of course there is the classic rub n' tug method of getting a gun into action.



Sorry couldn't help it!

 

[juwaba98]

slap and grab?

 

[TexasRedneck]

slap and grab?

Had a girlfriend I used to call that....

 

[TexasRedneck]

slap her on the ass, and grab her by the waist...

Close - but she had loooonnnnggg hair......

 

[40Arpent]

Y'all are cracking me up!!!

 

[Big country]

This is a thread about ............... hair pulling...no no thats not it rubing and tuging no no ummmm oh yeah it's about slap and grab.

 

[M. Sage]

NO, that's most definitely NOT what I'm saying! What I'm saying is I've seen people draw with the SERPA and press the button inward by literally curling their finger around so it is pointing straight inward and the tip is pressing the button directly inwards. It is my understanding that people have drawn in this manner under stress in training (and even some fairly experienced LE types as well) while exerting significant pressure, and maintaining that index finger orientation and level of pressure as they draw the gun. The result is as the gun and their finger clears the holster, that pressure causes their finger to fly into the triggerguard and likely slam into the trigger. I don't do this. My index finger moves in more of a brushstroke manner. Actually, you know give me a bit of time and let me see if I can get a video up here later tonight to show you exactly what I'm talking about (I'll have to add it to my SERPA review as well).

For the average civilian, and for a run of the mill pistol training class, the risk of killing another human being during a normal training class because they want to get a cool camera angle shot is simply not worth it. The tactical advantage of having complete situational awareness, as well as learning to be on the ball and safe in a team environment makes sense for those that have reached that level, especially whose professions (LE/Mil) depend on it. I have nothing against regular civy's like us doing 360 degree "team" stuff like that for those that have reached that level, I'm just saying for a run of the mill pistol class the risk just is not worth it.

Here's a vid about the SERPA issue I mentioned:

YouTube - Blackhawk SERPA Button Issue

Good video and explanation, but I'm still chalking it up to poor training methods. I've used a SERPA exclusively for a couple of years now, and never have actuated the button with my fingertip.

It should be ingrained that whenever you grip a handgun (comma rifle or shotgun), you should index your trigger finger flat on the frame (receiver) automatically. If it's ingrained, this will be incorporated into your draw stroke.

In my experience, most people, but especially LE types, spend far too little time on getting their draw stroke right.

 

[DCortez]

WTF Sage???? Get back on topic

 

[M. Sage]

Here's the reposted video:

YouTube - training

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Here's the reposted video:

Thank you.....now I understand what all the uproar was about...

 

[M. Sage]

BTW, Yeager has a response:

YouTube - Firearms Training Safety

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Nine minute attempt to defend his stupidity.....I wonder what his insurance providers will do once they see his training methods?

 

[TexasRedneck]

This guy is so busy trying to cover his a** that he can barely talk. What an idiot!