Is it just me or, is .40 cal the top dog versus 9 or 45

[MTA]

I stock 9mm, but it is very boring to shoot compared to .45

 

[BRD@66]

Yeah, but is it safe?

 

[Big Dipper]

As to 9mm, just remember Gabby Gifford’s was hit in the HEAD at point blank range with one and lived to be a vocal anti-gun critic.

 

[Kar98]

Yeah, but is it safe?

And can dainty diversity hires handle it?

 

[TheDan]

As to 9mm, just remember Gabby Gifford’s was hit in the HEAD at point blank range with one and lived to be a vocal anti-gun critic.

Well she's a Democrat and a politician so there was nothing vital up there to begin with.

 

[MTA]

As to 9mm, just remember Gabby Gifford’s was hit in the HEAD at point blank range with one and lived to be a vocal anti-gun critic.

Where on the head did he hit her? Im curious

 

[ZX9RCAM]

Where on the head did he hit her? Im curious

It was right between her "cheeks".

And not the ones on her face.....

 

[avvidclif]

View attachment 150520

My neck hurts just looking at that picture.

 

[Darkpriest667]

As to 9mm, just remember Gabby Gifford’s was hit in the HEAD at point blank range with one and lived to be a vocal anti-gun critic.

You didn't read the report very well. If Daniel Hernandez Jr. did not literally immediately apply pressure to her forehead and then keep her from choking on blood she would have been dead before paramedics could get her to the hospital. She was VERY VERY VERY lucky... BTW a Doctor and Nurse couple were at the store right next door and set up triage immediately, also saving Gifford... Most people aren't going to have medical personnel right next to them when they're shot. They'll be DOA.

Of the 19 people he shot 6 of them died, one was hit in the arm and Giffords just happened to be an outlier that lived. Shot placement matters

 

[CyberWolf]

FWIW, I know a bunch of folks who have sold off their .40 Short & Weak (or at least tried to) in favor of 9mm/45, but can't think of anyone I know doing the opposite.

I like 45ACP, but for several reasons the daily carry is a whole bunch of bonded 9mm +P, as neither one will generate a hydrostatic shock but 9mm wins on both capacity and action speed (and with hot loads & practice seems easier to ride the recoil for super-short split times).

Also, my understanding is that FMJ RN is absolute shit for defensive use regardless of caliber due to lack of "cutting" ability, and considering the "plumbing" option is slower/less effective than "electrical", the efficacy of pistol-based wound channels depending on either good expansion without excessive fragmentation (e.g. HP) or meplat width (non-expanding) is important to consider.

I've actually been seriously contemplating a combination of 10mm w/ 50gi conversion - hot 10mm JHP (for in-town) with option for a quick slide/mag swap to heavy 50gi w/ hardcast RNFP....

As to 9mm, just remember Gabby Gifford’s was hit in the HEAD at point blank range with one and lived to be a vocal anti-gun critic.

Not familiar with the specifics of that incident, but would think it likely that was related to either an FMJ RN being used, or if not, then just a grazing shot (not a direct hit)...

 

[Kar98]

It's 2018. Does ANYBODY carry ball ammo for self defense?

 

[Orbie]

I’m not a combat veteran and I’ve never shot anyone. My information is from word of mouth and the super trusty inter webs.

I’ve heard stories of people being shot multiple times with a .45 and staying in the fight. Shot Placement is the answer.

 

[Darkpriest667]

I'd love to carry 10mm but the gun selection is so limited (glock or 1911) and then there is the price it's 50% more than 9mm. Then there is.. ... Well I'm the size of a 12 year old so unless I OC I can't really carry a 10mm pistol.

 

[ZX9RCAM]

FWIW, I know a bunch of folks who have sold off their .40 Short & Weak (or at least tried to) in favor of 9mm/45, but can't think of anyone I know doing the opposite.

I like 45ACP, but for several reasons the daily carry is a whole bunch of bonded 9mm +P, as neither one will generate a hydrostatic shock but 9mm wins on both capacity and action speed (and with hot loads & practice seems easier to ride the recoil for super-short split times).

Also, my understanding is that FMJ RN is absolute shit for defensive use regardless of caliber due to lack of "cutting" ability, and considering the "plumbing" option is slower/less effective than "electrical", the efficacy of pistol-based wound channels depending on either good expansion without excessive fragmentation (e.g. HP) or meplat width (non-expanding) is important to consider.

I've actually been seriously contemplating a combination of 10mm w/ 50gi conversion - hot 10mm JHP (for in-town) with option for a quick slide/mag swap to heavy 50gi w/ hardcast RNFP....

Not familiar with the specifics of that incident, but would think it likely that was related to either an FMJ RN being used, or if not, then just a grazing shot (not a direct hit)...

If capacity is one of the reasons you carry 9mm over .40, then you'll not want 10mm as it's mags are the same capacity as .40.

Also, unless you carry boutique ammo, off the shelf 10mm is about the same FPS as .40.
There is an exception or two.

 

[MTA]

If capacity is one of the reasons you carry 9mm over .40, then you'll not want 10mm as it's mags are the same capacity as .40.

Also, unless you carry boutique ammo, off the shelf 10mm is about the same FPS as .40.
There is an exception or two.

I have heard that before too. If this is true, were the initial loadings for 10mm different back when the FBI was trialing? I thought they went to the .40 since 10mm was too much for some of the agents or something. Wouldnt they have similar recoil?

I dont know much about either's round ballistics

 

[ZX9RCAM]

I have heard that before too. If this is true, were the initial loadings for 10mm different back when the FBI was trialing? I thought they went to the .40 since 10mm was too much for some of the agents or something. Wouldnt they have similar recoil?

I dont know much about either's round ballistics

I can't speak about the FBI's 10mm loads back then, but I can speak from experience on current available loads.

 

[CyberWolf]

If capacity is one of the reasons you carry 9mm over .40, then you'll not want 10mm as it's mags are the same capacity as .40.

Also, unless you carry boutique ammo, off the shelf 10mm is about the same FPS as .40.
There is an exception or two.

Can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I don't like the 40 mainly because it just seems like a weak compromise compared to other alternatives, and though there's nothing "wrong" with it, just dont see any current selling points outside of perhaps getting a really good deal or already owning one for whatever reason/history...Less capacity than 9mm, less diameter than a 45acp, way less power than a 10mm with an identical projectile and capacity...(lots of content available on this topic for online research).

Also, (and it's been a while since shooting a couple different models of .40 and deciding I didn't like it), while this could just be entirely imaginary/psychosomatic, the recoil impulse on the .40 seemed odd to me (not sure I can explain that better given length of time). Either way, that last item, real or not, can be considered simply a training-issue; but is largely irrelevant given the others...

Switching from 17/15 rounds of 9mm (Glock 17/19/19.5 depending on the day) to 15 in 10mm is no problemo, and seems to be that mid/full-power 10mm is becoming more widely available (though not really an issue, just need a new set of dies, gauges, and new caliber conversion/toolhead, etc.; components/projectiles are widely available).

I'm actually a real fan of Glocks (first pistol was an early gen, so grip angle is by far the most natural to me), so that G20 Gen4 option is looking pretty good, all things considered. Plus, just a convertion kit w/ slide/sprimg/barrel and set of dies offers a 15-second conversion to throw a.50cal 275gr-300gr projectile, same mags and all.just lower capacity (about equivalent to 45acp). In fact, have been considering just selling/trading the 19.5 for a 20, not digging the ambi slide lock/release nearly as much as anticipated.

 

[CyberWolf]

I have heard that before too. If this is true, were the initial loadings for 10mm different back when the FBI was trialing? I thought they went to the .40 since 10mm was too much for some of the agents or something. Wouldnt they have similar recoil?

I dont know much about either's round ballistics

A lot of "downloaded" ammo is available, but mid/full power is available as well...Gets you about .40 equivalent on the low-end to approaching .357 mag energy on the high-end.

Also, can most definately be a bit more challenging for small hands.

 

[AustinN4]

What about the .357 SIG?

 

[ZX9RCAM]

What about the .357 SIG?

I don't think I've ever fired one of those....