Is Suicide Always the Result of Mental Illness?

[jrbfishn]

The one thing I have seen that keep some people from taking their own life, is fear of the unknown. What comes after what we call life.
For whatever reason, some fear life more than what comes after. When they reach that point, nothing will stop them.
Why is irrelevant

Sent by an idjit coffeeholic from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[benenglish]

Just to hug a child. Feel the warm sun again. Smell a fresh breeze of honeysuckle flowers.

Louis knew that though his body would technically be alive, he'd soon reach a point where he could never do those things again. After that, he'd be a burden and heartache to the living and pain personified to himself.

No, I don't think his choice was "romantic." I just think it was rational.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Psychopaths don’t care about life generally, sometimes including their own. They don’t mind taking others with them before they go to show just how malevolent they are.

I don’t specialize in this population.

If you do podcasts, Jordan Peterson explains the traits involved in the process pretty good here:
http://acu.libsyn.com/show-jordan-p...lumn-facebook-breaks-the-law-and-funny-parody

 

[Wildcat Diva]

It was celebrities. I have zero sympathy for them. With the lifestyle they lead, how people fallow them like a cult, the money and all the possessions they have I don't feel bad for them. They somehow will be remembered and the kids or adults who actually needed a friend will just never have existed.

One reason depression is selfish is because it's a choice to say please have pitty on me and pay attention to me. I remind myself that their are people in the world who are hurt and feeling alone on levels far greater than mine. This is why my philosophy has changed the older I got. I'm not perfect. I don't have many friends, I'm a dick, I have had a chip on my shoulder, its hard for me to trust, but I do know the world doesn't revolve around me. It's important to help pick others up even when you feel like no one wants to help you get back on your feet.

If it’s truly depression, then that’s not a choice.

We often look at completed suicide the same way: at that moment, the person didn’t see any other choice. Which I find difficult to understand... but, consider this...if they think of the idea and have high impulsivity, motivation to imminently act and a lethal plan, then there ya go.

 

[RobertTheTexan]

Is suicide a free will decision? Or can it be explained by an excuse?

I've been hospitalized for depression. Suicide to escape it??? How incredibly selfish and cruel to those that love me. Sometimes you gotta drop the balls and cope. If you reach a breaking point. You'll either lose to it or grow stronger. What you become on the other side is completely up to you.

There is no excuse.

So because you suffered depression and didn't choose to end your life you are now qualified to say "there is no excuse"? Have you crawled into the mind of every veteran who's taken his or her life? I do agree that it ultimately is a selfish decision. The impact can affect generations. I was stationed in Germany, pulling staff duty (24 hour duty in the barracks) when I received a Red Cross call/message notifying my unit that a service member had lost a family member. Answering the phone, I didn't realize that it was for me. It was my sister and she had killed herself. I wish she had taken a different path, or "dropped the balls" as you suggested, but apparently her level of hopelessness was greater than what you may or may not have experienced in your depression. I can go deep into some of the feelings that can trigger something like that. I found my mom raped and murdered when I was 12. The minute I spent in that room yelling and screaming for her to wake up, in spite of the bed being covered in blood, was almost more than my young mind could process. Not just then, but in the days, weeks, months and years. Don't think there were times where the pain of that, the fact I could never unsee that and the fact I was completely helpless to protect her didn't lead me down THAT path. More times than I can even count. Especially when the best advice came from my school counselor who told me, "drop your balls and cope". yeah. His words were a little different. "You just need to put this behind you and move on." So that brilliant advice sucked. Sucked to high heaven. I'm just saying that it's not always a matter of "Manning up". To think that is all one needs, pretty short sighted in my opinion, and I'd say even ignorant. The mind is far too complex to be healed/fixed/resolved by those simple words. At least in my opinion/experience. No, I don't ever want ANYONE to put their family through the agony of losing a family member like that, but sometimes, life just gets to the point where a person is totally overwhelmed. They don't see themselves as adding to anyone's life - they don't see themselves and bringing joy or love to anyone else's life. Sometimes, it's pain. Pain that is overwhelming, and trust me, in that pain, hearing "man up boy!" Doesn't do a damn iota of good. I can speak from first hand experience. A person can feel like the pain that's just soul crushing is never going to leave them. Unfortunately, so much of those feelings are lies. The pain does ease up at some point. That person DOES matter to others. That person will be missed. That person is not just a burden, but does bring value to their family and friends lives Those are all lies that have to be dealt with. At least in my own experience I found that to be the case. Those and many more thoughts are lies that can destroy. But if there is no one speaking truth in love to them, its not that difficult before those lies become that persons reality. And hopelessness at that point, is like an iceberg. People on the outside looking at that person, have no idea the depth of the hopelessness or pain that is their life. They see the tip, but the mass under the surface is enough to sink a ship.
I'm not garnering for sympathy with the info about my mom. I've gotten to the point where all of that and what I went through shaped me - for good and for some bad into the man I am. I'm just trying to give you some framework for where I'm coming from in my comments.

 

[busykngt]

Don’t think I’ll be choosing David Carradine’s way out.
I’m more of the ‘Private Benjamin’ (Goldie Hawn) type guy....
“What were his last words, my dear?”

 

[grasshopperglock]

So because you suffered depression and didn't choose to end your life you are now qualified to say "there is no excuse"? Have you crawled into the mind of every veteran who's taken his or her life? I do agree that it ultimately is a selfish decision. The impact can affect generations. I was stationed in Germany, pulling staff duty (24 hour duty in the barracks) when I received a Red Cross call/message notifying my unit that a service member had lost a family member. Answering the phone, I didn't realize that it was for me. It was my sister and she had killed herself. I wish she had taken a different path, or "dropped the balls" as you suggested, but apparently her level of hopelessness was greater than what you may or may not have experienced in your depression. I can go deep into some of the feelings that can trigger something like that. I found my mom raped and murdered when I was 12. The minute I spent in that room yelling and screaming for her to wake up, in spite of the bed being covered in blood, was almost more than my young mind could process. Not just then, but in the days, weeks, months and years. Don't think there were times where the pain of that, the fact I could never unsee that and the fact I was completely helpless to protect her didn't lead me down THAT path. More times than I can even count. Especially when the best advice came from my school counselor who told me, "drop your balls and cope". yeah. His words were a little different. "You just need to put this behind you and move on." So that brilliant advice sucked. Sucked to high heaven. I'm just saying that it's not always a matter of "Manning up". To think that is all one needs, pretty short sighted in my opinion, and I'd say even ignorant. The mind is far too complex to be healed/fixed/resolved by those simple words. At least in my opinion/experience. No, I don't ever want ANYONE to put their family through the agony of losing a family member like that, but sometimes, life just gets to the point where a person is totally overwhelmed. They don't see themselves as adding to anyone's life - they don't see themselves and bringing joy or love to anyone else's life. Sometimes, it's pain. Pain that is overwhelming, and trust me, in that pain, hearing "man up boy!" Doesn't do a damn iota of good. I can speak from first hand experience. A person can feel like the pain that's just soul crushing is never going to leave them. Unfortunately, so much of those feelings are lies. The pain does ease up at some point. That person DOES matter to others. That person will be missed. That person is not just a burden, but does bring value to their family and friends lives Those are all lies that have to be dealt with. At least in my own experience I found that to be the case. Those and many more thoughts are lies that can destroy. But if there is no one speaking truth in love to them, its not that difficult before those lies become that persons reality. And hopelessness at that point, is like an iceberg. People on the outside looking at that person, have no idea the depth of the hopelessness or pain that is their life. They see the tip, but the mass under the surface is enough to sink a ship.
I'm not garnering for sympathy with the info about my mom. I've gotten to the point where all of that and what I went through shaped me - for good and for some bad into the man I am. I'm just trying to give you some framework for where I'm coming from in my comments.

Dear Sir. Yes I have. I've known three vets who have killed themselves. I spent three years in outpatient classes to fight for what God gave me. I miss my friends.

There's not an excuse.


If you've never been at that point. To where a voice comes across your brain. Yes or No. Yes means you're dead. No means you live on with the pain. The years without one good feeling. Going through life wondering if it's a punishment.

Been there. Don't want the T-Shirt. No phucking excuses.

 

[Sam7sf]

If it’s truly depression, then that’s not a choice.

We often look at completed suicide the same way: at that moment, the person didn’t see any other choice. Which I find difficult to understand... but, consider this...if they think of the idea and have high impulsivity, motivation to imminently act and a lethal plan, then there ya go.

Feeling sorry for you're self is a choice. Just like when something bad happens you don't get depressed. You look at others and see they got problems too. It's a choice or it's mental illness. I choose not to get depressed because then the people who hurt me win. I also want to enjoy my time on this rock. I can't enjoy it if I'm depressed.

 

[Sam7sf]

Don’t think I’ll be choosing David Carradine’s way out.

So no wearing fishnets, having a dildo in your butt, and slipping off a chair while hanging yourself? Someone doesn't know how to have a good time.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

See, I think that at the moment when one actually does it, they’ve eliminated the other option (to live) and so it’s no longer a choice.

It’s the only thing to do.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Feeling sorry for you're self is a choice. Just like when something bad happens you don't get depressed. You look at others and see they got problems too. It's a choice or it's mental illness. I choose not to get depressed because then the people who hurt me win. I also want to enjoy my time on this rock. I can't enjoy it if I'm depressed.

Depression is not the same thing as feeling sorry for one’s self. That can be involved and contributing, but that’s NOT a symptom of the diagnosis.

If you can easily “choose” not to get depressed, then we are not talking clinical depression.

 

[Sam7sf]

I can see where you're coming from wildcat. But there's also really bad choices in life. Someone who does that...that's the last choice they would make. Hypotheticals on a dead person don't really matter.

 

[Sam7sf]

Depression is not the same thing as feeling sorry for one’s self. That can be involved and contributing, but that’s NOT a symptom of the diagnosis.

If you can easily “choose” not to get depressed, then we are not talking clinical depression.

Right, so mentally ill?

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Hypotheticals can matter to those of us left behind and those of us that need prevented from doing the same thing somehow. (And there are strategies for prevention with data backing them up).

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Right, so mentally ill?

Clinical Depression is mental illness, yes.

Not all suicides are from depression though.

 

[V-Tach]

I quit trying to make sense out of the senseless......Known more than my share of folks who decided to check out....

 

[Sam7sf]

Hypotheticals can matter to those of us left behind and those of us that need prevented from doing the same thing somehow. (And there are strategies for prevention with data backing them up).

This is very true. I forgot this as I don't think about ending my life. There will always be someone cleaning up the mess, family being in pain, ect.

In my early 20s I had a buddy kill himself. He's the reason why I advocate for couples not to get married young. He wasn't mature enough to move on. His wife was chatting with some guy and going to move out. The day before he killed himself he told me what his wife was up to. He didn't say or do anything that made me worry. I got a call from a detective in the morning giving me the bad news.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

We try to get into people’s heads enough to understand when they are at greatest risk of self harm or harm to others.

It’s not easy to do, there’s a huge margin of error, and there are no guarantees that harm will be prevented.

It’s kind of funny, though, the way that our brains work. You see enough people go through the same pattern of hard knocks and you can predict their thinking patterns and surprise them that you pegged them, NOT PERFECTLY, but much better odds with the “yes that’s correct” than “no way, that’s not like me.”

 

[Wildcat Diva]

This is very true. I forgot this as I don't think about ending my life. There will always be someone cleaning up the mess, family being in pain, ect.

In my early 20s I had a buddy kill himself. He's the reason why I advocate for couples not to get married young. He wasn't mature enough to move on. His wife was chatting with some guy and going to move out. The day before he killed himself he told me what his wife was up to. He didn't say or do anything that made me worry. I got a call from a detective in the morning giving me the bad news.

I’m so sorry. There’s no way you could have known what he was up to. We just don’t go screening people for this kind of thinking all the time.

Now, at my clinic, we ask each kid that could possibly be thinking this if they are thinking of it at EVERY psychiatrist visit and log it.

It’s awkward. Some people fear that this could have an impact of suicidal behavior increasing, but data shows that it does not. It’s awkward, though. The doctor and I both make sure they don’t ask the little-little kids though, cause that’s nuts.

(Although I have had cases of kindergarteners carving up their arms).

 

[Moonpie]

Our family has been touched by suicide.
One, a late middle aged male, WW2 vet, walked out to his barn one afternoon and ate a pistol.
He wasn't known to be ill.
He was a people person. Loved having folks over to BBQ and beer.
Just one day walked out back and BOOM! His wife was in the house at the time.
To this day we have no idea what made him take that walk.

Another was an elderly male. Ate up with cancer.
He shot himself.
I understand why he wanted to end it.
He was in great pain and knew he was never going to make it.

Neither of these were mentally ill so far as we could tell.