Is Suicide Always the Result of Mental Illness?

[majormadmax]

This is a good discussion, and I appreciate everyone's candor and civility towards each other.

I had this very discussion with my wife and she brought up Robin Williams. Williams was beginning to experience the effects of diffuse Lewy body dementia (previously diagnosed as Parkinson's disease). Williams was described by several doctors as among the worst pathologies they had ever seen. Early symptoms began in October 2013 and included a sudden and prolonged spike in fear and anxiety, constipation, urinary difficulty, heartburn, sleeplessness and insomnia, a poor sense of smell, stress, and a slight tremor in his left hand. Eventually he suffered from paranoia, delusions, severe insomnia, memory loss, and high cortisol levels, indicating stress. According to one source, "Robin was losing his mind and he was aware of it...He kept saying, 'I just want to reboot my brain.'" (source).

The question is was his suicide a result of the disease, or because he realized his future and decided he didn't want to live it? If the latter, would that be considered a mentally ill decision, or a logical one?

I don't know the answer, I am just trying to wrap my head around why some believe all suicides are the result of mental illness.

 

[AustinN4]

Dear Sir. Yes I have. I've known three vets who have killed themselves. I spent three years in outpatient classes to fight for what God gave me. I miss my friends.

There's not an excuse.


If you've never been at that point. To where a voice comes across your brain. Yes or No. Yes means you're dead. No means you live on with the pain. The years without one good feeling. Going through life wondering if it's a punishment.

Been there. Don't want the T-Shirt. No phucking excuses.

GG's way or the highway? Sorry, the world doesn't work that way.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Well, I think people want to say that that’s some kind of defect in thinking to do that, thus invoking the mentally ill card.

We do the same thing when people cause harm to others.

 

[grasshopperglock]

GG's way or the highway? Sorry, the world doesn't work that way.

No kidding. If you feel suicide is a way out. If you feel it's an option. It's life cowardice. You can be weak or strong. I have zero pitty for those that take their life.

If my personal life experiences shock you. You can Cope. I did.

 

[Sam7sf]

I agree with grasshopperglock. I have compassion for those that feel they need to do it but I don't linger on it once it's done. If I try to help someone I think of it as guiding them. Like learning to walk or ride a bike. I don't have the education to say I'm right. I'm sure there's a lot of psychology I don't understand. But I still believe we can help pick someone up when their down and give em some training wheels in life. You can't hold their hand forever though. If they go...they go.

 

[RobertTheTexan]

Feeling sorry for you're self is a choice. Just like when something bad happens you don't get depressed. You look at others and see they got problems too..

Are you suggesting that all that life can possibly deal a person is as simple as looking at another person and saying “oh they got problems too. I’ll just be happy.”???

I have not found life and it’s problems that simple. A kid loses his family in a car accident but he looks at the kid next to him and says, oh he got a bad grade on his report card. He’s not sad. I can be happy too?

My life had not been that simple. I fought my demons for 26 years , before I got to a place where I could consistently walk out a reasonably happy, quasi-normal life.

I get that pain is relative, but I could not look at a kid having a bad day because he missed a tackle Friday night and equate my challenges with his and decide that because he overcame screwing up on the field and missing a tackle, well I should be happy too.

I don’t think it is that simple. Maybe to some, not to me.




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[Wildcat Diva]

It’s not always cowardice. That would imply fear of living, taking the hard way out. Fear is only one of a few possible motivations for something as complex as suicide.


It’s sometimes ignorance. And helplessness. It’s believing with all your might that you CAN’T cope and then proving yourself right. It could be anger, or exhaustion. All of these to extremes that I probably can’t fathhom.

 

[oldag]

What about the soldier throwing himself on the grenade to save his buddies? The 911 tower jumpers... faced with burning to death or...
(maybe suicide can be “rational” after all?).

The above are not suicide by any means.

The former is sacrifice. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." John 15:13

The latter is merely choosing between two certain manners of death. The choice of death was not voluntary.

 

[Sam7sf]

Are you suggesting that all that life can possibly deal a person is as simple as looking at another person and saying “oh they got problems too. I’ll just be happy.”???

I have not found life and it’s problems that simple. A kid loses his family in a car accident but he looks at the kid next to him and says, oh he got a bad grade on his report card. He’s not sad. I can be happy too?

My life had not been that simple. I fought my demons for 26 years , before I got to a place where I could consistently walk out a reasonably happy, quasi-normal life.

I get that pain is relative, but I could not look at a kid having a bad day because he missed a tackle Friday night and equate my challenges with his and decide that because he overcame screwing up on the field and missing a tackle, well I should be happy too.

I don’t think it is that simple. Maybe to some, not to me.




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More like I don't feel like bitching about my problems when I know others have had it worse.

 

[oldag]

It was celebrities. I have zero sympathy for them. With the lifestyle they lead, how people fallow them like a cult, the money and all the possessions they have I don't feel bad for them. They somehow will be remembered and the kids or adults who actually needed a friend will just never have existed.

One reason depression is selfish is because it's a choice to say please have pitty on me and pay attention to me. I remind myself that their are people in the world who are hurt and feeling alone on levels far greater than mine. This is why my philosophy has changed the older I got. I'm not perfect. I don't have many friends, I'm a dick, I have had a chip on my shoulder, its hard for me to trust, but I do know the world doesn't revolve around me. It's important to help pick others up even when you feel like no one wants to help you get back on your feet.

My sympathy for someone is irregardless of their wealth or status.

As far as depression, depression often results from medical conditions not from a choice. I have known people suffering from depression and they would much rather have been free from it.

 

[oldag]

Is that the justification or the excuse? Or did he just give up on the fight?

Maybe it is choosing not to be a terrible burden on others for many years to come, given a terrible disease with no cure.

 

[oldag]

Feeling sorry for you're self is a choice. Just like when something bad happens you don't get depressed. You look at others and see they got problems too. It's a choice or it's mental illness. I choose not to get depressed because then the people who hurt me win. I also want to enjoy my time on this rock. I can't enjoy it if I'm depressed.

Your are displaying a callous ignorance with regard to depression. Some study on this topic would be time well spent.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Some people don’t know how to correct errors in thinking on their own and their thinking errors can cause their moods and behavior to exacerbate the problems and spiral down in functioning (often without them knowing why).

This is not their fault but it is their problem to deal with somehow (or face the consequences of not correcting it).

Such folks can (if presented the opportunity to) learn on their own or with help to correct the ineffective thinking/ behavior/ mood patterns and change for the better.

They don’t have to be dependent on someone like me for that once they have corrected the error and learned the process for future circumstances.

People can learn to change their thinking from many sources but it takes motivation and sometimes an outside source is needed to identify the aspects (most people are oblivious to the connections) and attempt to aid the person in correcting them.

Sad that we don’t teach such topics in school.

 

[diesel1959]

I think it's actually unhealthy to dwell upon WHY someone chooses to commit suicide. I won't go down that road.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I think it's actually unhealthy to dwell upon WHY someone chooses to commit suicide. I won't go down that road.

I spent a dark few months after a teenage client killed himself within a year of me treating him (dropped out of therapy at the time school started and had killed himself by April 1).

I was way too introspective for my own good. I should have set better boundaries, but I did learn a few things and got to a sort of peace with it eventually. It took longer than it should have.

The “why” is a part of the grief process, the “bargaining” stage. I AGREE with you that getting stuck there, dwelling, IS bad business.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Maybe it is choosing not to be a terrible burden on others for many years to come, given a terrible disease with no cure.

Respect, but that's still an excuse. You will never be a burden to those that love you. Every second spent in life is a gift. No matter the difficulty. Nobody said life was going to be a cake walk. An existence of pure joy.

Never stop fighting for the gift given you. Never stop loving those around you and the most important thing...

Love Yourself. Don't give up. No matter how bad things get or are. Because life is precious in all forms. Sick or healthy.

Go out this life swinging and be remembered for a fighter. Not someone that took the easy way.

Never ever stop the fight.

 

[Sam7sf]

Your are displaying a callous ignorance with regard to depression. Some study on this topic would be time well spent.

Stay mad.

 

[oldag]

Respect, but that's still an excuse. You will never be a burden to those that love you. Every second spent in life is a gift. No matter the difficulty. Nobody said life was going to be a cake walk. An existence of pure joy.

Never stop fighting for the gift given you. Never stop loving those around you and the most important thing...

Love Yourself. Don't give up. No matter how bad things get or are. Because life is precious in all forms. Sick or healthy.

Go out this life swinging and be remembered for a fighter. Not someone that took the easy way.

Never ever stop the fight.

Sorry, but while loved ones will carry the burden, it is still most definitely a burden. Just a burden that is willingly borne out of love. If you had ever been in that situation, you should know.

Someone with severe alzheimer's cannot fight. They cannot love. They have no intellect left. Their physical body can just go on with its involuntary functions. The mind is gone.

As for other conditions that leave the mind somewhat intact but no body functions left, I would not wish that on my loved ones. And I had to endure this with a loved one. Thankfully, God finally granted the final healing and took them home. No more pain, suffering or tears. No more being trapped in a body that would not respond to the mind's will.

There is a life, an eternal life, beyond this one. No need to grasp with so much desperation to an earthly existence.

 

[oldag]

Stay mad.

Mad as in crazy? Sure. Always been crazy.

Mad as in angry? No anger here. Just a little sadness that someone can show so little understanding and compassion towards others.

 

[grasshopperglock]

Sorry, but while loved ones will carry the burden, it is still most definitely a burden. Just a burden that is willingly borne out of love. If you had ever been in that situation, you should know.

Someone with severe alzheimer's cannot fight. They cannot love. They have no intellect left. Their physical body can just go on with its involuntary functions. The mind is gone.

There is a life, an eternal life, beyond this one. No need to grasp with so much desperation to an earthly existence.

Sorry, but while loved ones will carry the burden, it is still most definitely a burden. Just a burden that is willingly borne out of love. If you had ever been in that situation, you should know.

Someone with severe alzheimer's cannot fight. They cannot love. They have no intellect left. Their physical body can just go on with its involuntary functions. The mind is gone.

There is a life, an eternal life, beyond this one. No need to grasp with so much desperation to an earthly existence.

I've experienced a mother in law that got advanced Alzheimer's in her 60's. She was never in a frame of mind to kill herself and none of the family wanted her dead. She would forget to pay bills. Then forgot how to cook. Then how to bathe. Then forgot how to breathe.

She was cared for until the very end. Suicide never was an option. Difficult? Yes. Deserving of death? No. Loved? Most definitely.