Legally Carrying Sword & Dagger? (Pursuant to 46.15 / 46.02 discussion)

[midnightyell]

Before I begin, this thread treats as a given that 46.02 is invalidated by 46.15 when a CHL holder carries both a valid concealed handgun and license.
Exhibit A

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY. (a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club

Based on that assumption, educate me here, folks. I read that carrying an illegal knife includes knives over 6", daggers, swords, and spears.

Question 1: Does carrying a sheathed sword, dagger, or spear on your person at a Renaissance Faire constitute a violation of 46.02?

Texas Renaissance Festival in Plantersville has 30.06 signs at the entrance that intend to disallow you from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises as a CHL holder. (I forgot to note if they were valid 30.06 signs as I didn't have a handgun in my tunic, kyrtle & breeches.)

Question 2: Assuming the 30.06 signs are valid, and a CHL holder cannot concealed carry a handgun, does that mean there is not a legal means to carry sword, dagger, or spear on the grounds of their event?

Just thought of this as an interesting wrinkle in a tangent to the "buying illegal knives at Gun Shows" since hundreds of men and women walk that property during the fall weekends with all kinds of daggers, 6"+ sharpened knives, and lots and lots of swords, some concealed, some open carry.

 

[txinvestigator]

Illegal knives are those over 5 1/2 inches. Swords and spears are also listed.

The law requires that you carry your CHL and handgun to be exempt from 46.02. Since you cannot carry a handgun under 30.06, then it is a violation to carry a sword or spear there.

I suppose if you were an actor in an event, that could be a lawful sporting event. Perhaps.

 

[Younggun]

Considered replicas? Don't know if it matters.

 

[Bithabus]

Yes, all those people at the Faire carrying swords are breaking the law. However there is a tacit agreement between management and the Police that they will look the other way.

If you carry a concealed handgun and illegal knife past a valid 30.06 sign you can be prosecuted for 30.06 but not 46.02.

 

[woodsong]

A club, too? Does this mean every person coming to bat in a baseball game is violating the law?

 

[txinvestigator]

A club, too? Does this mean every person coming to bat in a baseball game is violating the law?

This is getting ridiculous. A baseball bat is not a club.

 

[woodsong]

Webster Definition: "A heavy stick with a thick end"

 

[txinvestigator]

Webster Definition: "A heavy stick with a thick end"

That is not how the penal code defines club. http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/texas-concealed-handgun-chl-sponsored-double-action-chl/25662-overview-texas-gun-laws.html

 

[midnightyell]

Considered replicas? Don't know if it matters.

While my swords are of modern manufacture, the one I primarily carry ate Faire is 38" long, 1060 High Carbon Spring Steel, and sharp enough to slice paper or sever rattan, so I don't know if they'd let me off on the replica exemption.

A club, too? Does this mean every person coming to bat in a baseball game is violating the law?

No, but Leprechauns with Shillelaghs are!

This leads me to ask, doesn't the Second Amendment protect my right to bear arms? Not just firearms, but all arms? Why shouldn't I be able to open carry a sword if I wish?

 

[AKM]

they think anything over 5.5;; is ment to do nothing but kill. Thats their reason from what Ive heard. I grew up in magnolia I HATE renfest fucks traffic all up, and you have all the "renies" or dirty carnies as I call them are everywhere. lol Lived there 14+ years and never set foot at that place.

 

[txinvestigator]

This leads me to ask, doesn't the Second Amendment protect my right to bear arms? Not just firearms, but all arms? Why shouldn't I be able to open carry a sword if I wish?

Hellyea, hand grenades, claymores, atom bombs. . . . . WTF man! I demand my rights.

 

[TundraWookiee]

I'm by no means an expert or positive where it is located in Texas law (if it even is) but I think I recall the exceptions being:

-Historical reenactments, i.e. renaissance fairs and civil war events;
-Ceremonies that they are an integral part of, i.e. cultural dances and officiating ceremonies;
-Any Military or Police Officer in a full dress uniform that a sword or saber is a portion of;
-Hunters with a normal sized hunting knife on the way to or coming from a hunting trip with their hunting permits on their person;
-Any job requiring the use of a knife or machete larger than five and a half inches with the purchase of a special permit.

The RenFest would fall under the first category. They do require all blades be sheathed and peace tied at all times with the exception of actors involved in reenactment scenes.​

 

[txinvestigator]

I'm by no means an expert or positive where it is located in Texas law (if it even is) but I think I recall the exceptions being:

-Historical reenactments, i.e. renaissance fairs and civil war events;
-Ceremonies that they are an integral part of, i.e. cultural dances and officiating ceremonies;
-Any Military or Police Officer in a full dress uniform that a sword or saber is a portion of;
-Hunters with a normal sized hunting knife on the way to or coming from a hunting trip with their hunting permits on their person;
-Any job requiring the use of a knife or machete larger than five and a half inches with the purchase of a special permit. [FONT=Verdana

The RenFest would fall under the first category. They do require all blades be sheathed and peace tied at all times with the exception of actors involved in reenactment scenes.[/FONT]​

Yep, for historical events see 46.15 (e), for military see (f). LEO is covered under 46.15 (a) I believe. This references the penal code. I had forgotten about the exception for historical events. I had to look it up.

 

[firefree]

Generally you can have an illegal knife if you are going to of from any activity where the weapon is normally used. They are illegal to carry not to own or use. How many hunters carry a much larger than 5.5 inch knife while hunting. Not a violation. I'm old and my memory is weak. So don't quote me.

 

[txinvestigator]

Generally you can have an illegal knife if you are going to of from any activity where the weapon is normally used. They are illegal to carry not to own or use. How many hunters carry a much larger than 5.5 inch knife while hunting. Not a violation. I'm old and my memory is weak. So don't quote me.

Your memory is good. Penal Code 46.15(b) tells us that it is not unlawful to carry an illegal knife while engaged in lawful hunting, fishing or other sporting activity if the knife is commonly used in that activity. To and from is also covered.

 

[Bithabus]

deleted

 

[Bithabus]

I'm by no means an expert or positive where it is located in Texas law (if it even is) but I think I recall the exceptions being:

-Historical reenactments, i.e. renaissance fairs and civil war events;
-Ceremonies that they are an integral part of, i.e. cultural dances and officiating ceremonies;
-Any Military or Police Officer in a full dress uniform that a sword or saber is a portion of;
-Hunters with a normal sized hunting knife on the way to or coming from a hunting trip with their hunting permits on their person;
-Any job requiring the use of a knife or machete larger than five and a half inches with the purchase of a special permit.

The RenFest would fall under the first category. They do require all blades be sheathed and peace tied at all times with the exception of actors involved in reenactment scenes.
​

Here is the actual list:


Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(a) Sections 46.02 and 46.03 do not apply to:
(1) peace officers or special investigators under Article 2.122, Code of Criminal Procedure, and neither section prohibits a peace officer or special investigator from carrying a weapon in this state, including in an establishment in this state serving the public, regardless of whether the peace officer or special investigator is engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's or investigator's duties while carrying the weapon;
(2) parole officers and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) in compliance with policies and procedures adopted by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice regarding the possession of a weapon by an officer while on duty;
(3) community supervision and corrections department officers appointed or employed under Section 76.004, Government Code, and neither section prohibits an officer from carrying a weapon in this state if the officer is:
(A) engaged in the actual discharge of the officer's duties while carrying the weapon; and
(B) authorized to carry a weapon under Section 76.0051, Government Code;
(4) an active judicial officer as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code, who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;
(5) an honorably retired peace officer or federal criminal investigator who holds a certificate of proficiency issued under Section 1701.357, Occupations Code, and is carrying a photo identification that:
(A) verifies that the officer honorably retired after not less than 15 years of service as a commissioned officer; and
(B) is issued by a state or local law enforcement agency;
(6) a district attorney, criminal district attorney, county attorney, or municipal attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;
(7) an assistant district attorney, assistant criminal district attorney, or assistant county attorney who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;
(8) a bailiff designated by an active judicial officer as defined by Section 411.201, Government Code, who is:
(A) licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Chapter 411, Government Code; and
(B) engaged in escorting the judicial officer; or
(9) a juvenile probation officer who is authorized to carry a firearm under Section 142.006, Human Resources Code.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(1) is in the actual discharge of official duties as a member of the armed forces or state military forces as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code, or as a guard employed by a penal institution;
(2) is traveling;
(3) is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;
(4) holds a security officer commission issued by the Texas Private Security Board, if the person is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as an officer commissioned under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment and is wearing the officer's uniform and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view;
(5) acts as a personal protection officer and carries the person's security officer commission and personal protection officer authorization, if the person:
(A) is engaged in the performance of the person's duties as a personal protection officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, or is traveling to or from the person's place of assignment; and
(B) is either:
(i) wearing the uniform of a security officer, including any uniform or apparel described by Section 1702.323(d), Occupations Code, and carrying the officer's weapon in plain view; or
(ii) not wearing the uniform of a security officer and carrying the officer's weapon in a concealed manner;
(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun of the same category as the handgun the person is carrying;
(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises; or
(8) is a student in a law enforcement class engaging in an activity required as part of the class, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity and the person is:
(A) on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted; or
(B) en route between those premises and the person's residence and is carrying the weapon unloaded.
(c) The provision of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a club does not apply to a noncommissioned security guard at an institution of higher education who carries a nightstick or similar club, and who has undergone 15 hours of training in the proper use of the club, including at least seven hours of training in the use of the club for nonviolent restraint. For the purposes of this subsection, "nonviolent restraint" means the use of reasonable force, not intended and not likely to inflict bodily injury.
(d) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a firearm or carrying of a club do not apply to a public security officer employed by the adjutant general under Section 431.029, Government Code, in performance of official duties or while traveling to or from a place of duty.
(e) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of an illegal knife do not apply to an individual carrying a bowie knife or a sword used in a historical demonstration or in a ceremony in which the knife or sword is significant to the performance of the ceremony.
(f) Section 46.03(a)(6) does not apply to a person who possesses a firearm or club while in the actual discharge of official duties as:
(1) a member of the armed forces or state military forces, as defined by Section 431.001, Government Code; or
(2) an employee of a penal institution.
(g) The provisions of Sections 46.02 and 46.03 prohibiting the possession or carrying of a club do not apply to an animal control officer who holds a certificate issued under Section 829.006, Health and Safety Code, and who possesses or carries an instrument used specifically for deterring the bite of an animal while the officer is in the performance of official duties under the Health and Safety Code or is traveling to or from a place of duty.
(h) Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(1), eff. September 1, 2007.
(i) Repealed by Acts 2007, 80th Leg., R.S., Ch. 693, Sec. 3(2), eff. September 1, 2007.
(j) The provisions of Section 46.02 prohibiting the carrying of a handgun do not apply to an individual who carries a handgun as a participant in a historical reenactment performed in accordance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

 

[TheDan]

Texas Renaissance Festival in Plantersville has 30.06 signs at the entrance that intend to disallow you from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises as a CHL holder.

Since it's mostly an outdoor event, there are no "premises". Just don't go inside a building. Do tents count as a premises?

I grew up in magnolia I HATE renfest fucks traffic all up, and you have all the "renies" or dirty carnies as I call them are everywhere. lol Lived there 14+ years and never set foot at that place.

You're single right? Do yourself a favor and go camping at the next renfest. You don't even have to go in the actual festival. There's plenty of fun at the campground.

Hellyea, hand grenades, claymores, atom bombs. . . . . WTF man! I demand my rights.

I detect a hint of sarcasm, but yeah... that's the general idea

 

[txinvestigator]

Since it's mostly an outdoor event, there are no "premises". Just don't go inside a building. Do tents count as a premises?

. The definition of premises that is a building or portion of a building ONLY applies to sections 46.03 & 46.035. Also, 30.06 never uses the term premises. 30.06 refers to the term property. The festival can post legally enforceable 30.06 signs that applies to the grounds.

 

[TheDan]

bummer