Montgomery County Constable issues with AZ CHL

[Bithabus]

You have to admit, this Deputy's behavior is very unusual. I feel that there is some personal motivation.

 

[Texan2]

You have to admit, this Deputy's behavior is very unusual. I feel that there is some personal motivation.

I would agree

 

[winchster]

I'd be interested in the elected constable's stance as well as the actual DA and not an ADA.

 

[Texan2]

I'd be interested in the elected constable's stance as well as the actual DA and not an ADA.

I agree. It is odd that he looks to underlings for guidance and not those at the top.

 

[espy59lc]

Well I got 3 e-mails today from the Attorney General's Office. My e-mail to them basically explained the situation (short quick bullet points outlining the issues) and a link to this site and sent them of course the e-mails between myself and Mr. Stitt and between myself and DPS.

First E-mail was not from the AG himself:

[h=3]Re: Problems with Deputy Constable Montgomery County and CHL Reciprocity Laws[/h] Hide Details
FROM:

• Public Information

TO:

• J. Espinoza

Message flagged
Monday, October 17, 2011 3:17 PM

Dear Mr. Espinoza:

Thank you for your recent email. We appreciate your contacting the Office of the Attorney General of Texas.

Please understand that under Texas law the Office of the Attorney General of Texas is prohibited from providing legal advice, interpretations of the law or representation to private individuals.

You may wish to report this to the county judge and county commissioners, who have limited oversight over constables. To obtain their names and telephone numbers, you can call your county courthouse.

At the present time, the state of Texas only recognizes valid concealed handgun permits from the following states:

Alabama
Alaska
Arizona
Arkansas
California
Colorado
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Hawaii
Idaho
Indiana
Iowa

Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Mississippi
Missouri
Montana
Nebraska
Nevada
New Jersey
New Mexico
New York
North Carolina
North Dakota
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Utah
Virginia
Washington
Wyoming

States on the above list that do not recognize valid concealed handgun permits issued by Texas are:
California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Iowa, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Washington. Also, please note that only permanent, state-issued Connecticut permits are honored by the state of Texas. Temporary paper permits issued by local Connecticut authorities, known as "60-day" permits, do NOT meet the requirements of Texas law.

The Texas Department of Public Safety maintains a listing of states on their website with which Texas has established hand gun licensing reciprocity. You can access this page at www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/reciprocity.htm.

You may wish to discuss your legal remedies in this matter with a private attorney. The Lawyer Referral Service of the State Bar of Texas can assist you in contacting an attorney in Texas with relevant expertise. The Lawyer Referral Service can be reached at (800) 252-9690 or (512) 463-1463.

Again, thank you for writing.

Sincerely,

Donna K. Lee
Public Information & Assistance Division
Office of the Attorney General of Texas


2nd E-mail:

[h=3]Re: Problems with Deputy Constable Montgomery County and CHL Reciprocity Laws[/h] Hide Details
FROM:

• Gregory Lucas

TO:

• J. Espinoza

CC:

• Gregory Lucas

Message flagged
Monday, October 17, 2011 3:46 PM

Mr. Espinoza, the Office of the Attorney General does not have oversight over Constables. Complaints against peace officers in Texas can be made to the head of the agency where he is employed, in this case, elected Constable Tim Holifield. The website to obtain contact information for Montgomery County Constables is Constables.

3rd e-mail:

[h=3]Re: Problems with Deputy Constable Montgomery County and CHL Reciprocity Laws[/h] Hide Details
FROM:

• Gregory Lucas

TO:

• J. Espinoza

CC:

• Gregory Lucas

Message flagged
Monday, October 17, 2011 3:47 PM

I am sorry, I left off my contact information.



Captain Gregory Lucas
Office of the Attorney General
Criminal Investigation Division
Office (512) 936-1335
Cell (512) 652-8426
FAX (512) 370-9948

So all in all, not too much from them. I sent the same e-mail I sent to the AG to the TSRA Executive, NRA, DA of Montgomery County. AG Office is the only one who I've heard back from as of today.

 

[Texan2]

The AG just said Texas recognizes the AZ permit....nothing about residency. Again, the DEPUTY Constable is completely incorrect about his interpretation of the law.

 

[espy59lc]

Yeah, I was hoping for a "We will contact them regarding this issue" haha, wishful thinking. At least they are aware of it.

 

[London]

<Sigh>...this isn't dramatic? Really?

I don't think so, but for the sake of concentrating on the task at hand I'd rather we not make a big fuss over it. Anyone is free to disagree, but let's please focus our efforts at thwarting our common enemy.

 

[London]

Regarding the response from AG-

Makes you wonder what the Hell we pay them for. They won't give an answer and it looks like unless it goes to SC we won't know for sure. There's no way to win. Don't you just love the stranglehold of bureaucracy???

 

[Texan2]

Regarding the response from AG-

Makes you wonder what the Hell we pay them for. They won't give an answer and it looks like unless it goes to SC we won't know for sure. There's no way to win. Don't you just love the stranglehold of bureaucracy???

C'mon student of the law....read what was written. the AG said they dont offer legal interpretation to private individuals. That is the job of private attornies. They would give a DA or a city or county an opinion.

No "stranglehold of bureaucracy" here. (Although that phrase would fit into my "dramatic flair" catagory)

 

[Bithabus]

The AG just said Texas recognizes the AZ permit....nothing about residency. Again, the DEPUTY Constable is completely incorrect about his interpretation of the law.

Exactly. Because, according to Texas law, there is no distinction between an AZ resident permit and a non resident permit. The Deputy invented a law (the law Burnam wanted to create last session) because he read an inaccurate blurb on the DPS website and was fueled by his prejudices.

 

[Acera]

Originally Posted by Texan2
The AG just said Texas recognizes the AZ permit....nothing about residency. Again, the DEPUTY Constable is completely incorrect about his interpretation of the law.

But really how much is this going to matter when he or one of his associates, who have been told this interpretation, and an ADA who is willing to accept charges cuffs you and takes you to jail. You may end up beating the charge, and completely clearing yourself but at what cost? How much time would you have sitting under arrest while being processed? Worse you may have to take a plea bargain due to financial limitations. You got a LEO, a DA that believes this to be a crime, is it that hard to think that they might convince a judge or jury it is also??

 

[Bithabus]

But really how much is this going to matter when he or one of his associates, who have been told this interpretation, and an ADA who is willing to accept charges cuffs you and takes you to jail. You may end up beating the charge, and completely clearing yourself but at what cost? How much time would you have sitting under arrest while being processed? Worse you may have to take a plea bargain due to financial limitations. You got a LEO, a DA that believes this to be a crime, is it that hard to think that they might convince a judge or jury it is also??

We don't know that the DA shares the Deputy's ignorance. I find it hard to believe that he does.

 

[Acera]

We don't know that the DA shares the Deputy's ignorance. I find it hard to believe that he does.

Bithabus,
Hopefully your are correct. However does the DA get all the questions regarding charging someone, or does he allow his ADA's to make some of those decisions? Evenings, weekends, holidays is he on call 100% of the time for every person arrested in his jurisdiction?

According to the email received from them by espy59lc some of them would.

The District Attorney of this County have made the determination and will accept criminal charges. According to ADA Jeridith Jones and doubled confirmed by ADA Mike Shirley.

You might beat the rap, you will not beat the ride.....

I am trying desperately to avoid the ride (or possibility of such a ride) for me or someone else.

 

[Bithabus]

Bithabus,
Hopefully your are correct. However does the DA get all the questions regarding charging someone, or does he allow his ADA's to make some of those decisions? Evenings, weekends, holidays is he on call 100% of the time for every person arrested in his jurisdiction?

According to the email received from them by espy59lc some of them would.


You might beat the rap, you will not beat the ride.....

Trying desperately to avoid the ride (or possibility of such a ride).

I know. It just seems crazy to me. And, honestly, I don't trust anything this Deputy says.

 

[Texan2]

I agree with Acera, no one should have to go through the hassle, thats why I suggested blowing up the emails of those who have some control (or should) of this guy. It seems like something that the TSRA or NRA would love to jump all over.

He needs to be reigned in BEFORE he exacts his own brand of justice on an innocent person.

 

[espy59lc]

Getting ready to walk out the door for a little bit, but if someone could get me the Counties Judge, Constable, and whomever else you guys think need to know, I will forward my e-mail to them as well. Either post it here or PM me their e-mails and I'll send them a message when I get back home.

Have not heard back from anyone other than AG on this matter yet...Maybe they are busying dealing with other illegal arrests? haha j/k

Those I have not heard back from:

District Attorney for Montgomery County
Texas Rangers
TSRA
NRA

Maybe if more people e-mail? Maybe then it will get a response? IDK

 

[espy59lc]

and I'm still waiting for my message from Deputy Stitt saying he is wrong.

 

[TheDan]

It seems like something that the TSRA or NRA would love to jump all over.

I dunno... I'd bet a dollar the TSRA would side with the deputy. I get the feeling they are part of the "If you don't have a TX CHL, then you're wrong!" crowd. More than likely they'll just stay silent on this one.

The NRA usually stays out of small fry stuff like this.

 

[Havoc70]

Part of it is cost. IMO, Texas is stupid-high on their CHL's, especially renewals.

Not compared to California:

Payment to county sheriff's office for application: $103
Payment to county sheriff's office for Live Scan: $95
Payment for instruction: $150
Total for new permit: $348

Renewal Fee: $25 -ish
Renewal training: $150
Total for renewal: $175

Also, CA licenses are only good for two years.