Montgomery County Constable issues with AZ CHL

[Mexican_Hippie]

It's legal to carry in your car without a CHL. It can even be carried on your person, just has to be concealed.

It's almost like the state treats you as an adult/free person in your own car, except for the concealment part. Yay for pseudo-freedom!

 

[espy59lc]

What if we all send an e-mail to them regarding this issue and let them know how we feel about them "not liking" the law and enforcing their own "laws".

Power/support in numbers might help...Just an idea?

 

[espy59lc]

Well I sent an e-mail to the Constable...Basically stating my concern for his interpretation of the Law. I makes it personal to me b/c I do carry with an AZ non-resident CCW. I copied the section of the law that Bithabus posted in post #4 for reference. I don't know what "insults" he is referring too, maybe I came off as too pissed off, but that wasn't the intention. Maybe it was when I said I hope he doesn't use his interpretation to harass someone who is legally carrying with an AZ CCW non-resident. I don't know. Oh well.

Here is his response:

Mr. Espy59lc,


I did not take personal offence to your insults in your letter below. I would like to take this opportunity to educate you on Texas Law.

Montgomery county Texas has empowered me to enforce the laws of this great state. I am glad that you are currently a TX resident but you should take note to this information. A TX resident will be covered under various laws to carry a weapon with or without a CHL. If you are unaware of those laws then I would be glad to let you know. However, I feel that you probably already know them so I will continue to explain why, and how you will be in violation of unlawful carrying of a weapon.

Yes, Texas has reciprocity agreement with Arizona.

Texas Department of Public Safety - Courtesy, Service, Protection September 15, 1999

Texas, Arizona Establish Concealed Handgun License Reciprocity

Arizonans with concealed handgun licenses issued by their home state now can legally carry concealed handguns in Texas, and vice versa.

Col. Dudley M. Thomas, director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, signed a reciprocity agreement with the State of Arizona through which licensees can legally cross that state line with their concealed handguns.


I will give you this scenario and you can apply it however you want to your situation:

If a person lives in my county and goes to the grocery store down the road carrying a weapon and in possession of an Arizona CHL. He has committed the crime of Unlawful carrying of a weapon, and I will take that person to jail. The District Attorney of this County have made the determination and will accept criminal charges. According to ADA Jeridith Jones and doubled confirmed by ADA Mike Shirley.

Montgomery County District Attorney
Brett Ligon
207 W. Phillips 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Floor
Conroe TX 77301
936.539.7800
281.364.4200

I would choose your battle wisely ~ I personally would not risk going to jail just to save some money.
You decide !!



Deputy JJ §titt ~ 8318
Montgomery County Constable Pct. 3
1520 Lake Front Cir. Suite 200
The Woodlands, TX 77380
281.364.4211



----------------------------------------------End E-mail-----------------------------------------

So what he is saying is that the Law he quotes says "Arizonans... issued the CCW from their home state"

Anyone have a counter to this in law?

Now my next e-mail is to DPS questioning this...Will update when I get a reply from DPS.

 

[espy59lc]

DPS e-mail sent.

Here is what I wrote to DPS:

I'm contacting you regarding a concern that has arose from a Constable in Montgomery County Precinct 3.

I e-mailed DPS before regarding my Right to carry in Texas, as a Texas Resident, with a AZ CCW non-resident License. I simply asked if it was legal for me to carry Concealed under the AZ CCW License. I actually had two e-mails sent, one from me and one from my girlfriend to have two solid answers on this subject. BOTH replies came back with a "Yes" that it's allowed and legal.

Now this subject came up when a Texas resident went to Montgomery County Precinct 3 to get his Fingerprint cards done for his AZ CCW non-resident License. The Officer JJ Stitt #8318 told him it is ILLEGAL to carry concealed in Texas with a AZ CCW if you are not a resident of Arizona. And in the e-mail I posted below he threatens to arrest anyone caught carrying concealed with an AZ CCW.

This is his response e-mail to the one I sent him earlier today questioning his reasoning for this. I'm hoping you can confirm for a THIRD time that I am legally allowed to carry concealed handgun under Arizona CCW Reciprocity with the state of Texas as a Texas Resident with a Arizona CCW License.

***Insert e-mail from Constable here***


I look forward to your answer, and if he is right, I would like to know why I was told wrong, as I have been carrying under this License.


Thank you,


Jorden Espinoza

 

[espy59lc]

BOOM! THAT WAS QUICK!!! RESPONSE FROM DPS!

[h=3]RE: Arizona CHL in Texas 1[/h] Hide Details
FROM:

• RSD_Customer_Relations

TO:

• ESPY59LC

Message flagged
Friday, October 14, 2011 3:23 PM

[FONT]They are 100% wrong. We honor Arizona gun permits, for both Arizona residents and Arizona non-residents. You are legal to carry here if you have a valid Arizona permit, and Arizona has your Texas address on file with their office. [/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]Best regards,[/FONT][FONT][/FONT]
[FONT]Concealed Handgun Program[/FONT]
[FONT]Customer Relations Section[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]Our mailing address:[/FONT]
[FONT]Texas Department of Public Safety[/FONT]
[FONT]Concealed Handgun License Program, MSC 0245[/FONT]
[FONT]PO Box 4087[/FONT]
[FONT]Austin, TX 78773-0245[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]

[/FONT][FONT][/FONT]
[FONT]Texas Department of Public Safety[/FONT]
[FONT]Regulatory Services Division[/FONT]
[FONT]Phone: (512) 424-7293[/FONT]
[FONT]Website: TxDPS - Concealed Handgun Licensing[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]AGENCY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: [/FONT][FONT]This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged, and should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all electronic and non-electronic copies, and delete it from your system.[/FONT][FONT][/FONT]

[FONT]
[/FONT]

 

[espy59lc]

Another quick e-mail back to me from DPS:

[h=3]Arizona Gun Permit 1[/h] Hide Details
FROM:

• Morgan, Darrell

TO:Espy59lc
Message flagged
Friday, October 14, 2011 3:28 PM

Mr. Espy59lc,


If you like you can give the officer our phone number and they can contact us regarding the validity of the Arizona Permit. Our phone number is- 512-424-7293 or you can give them my email.

Thanks, Darrell

[FONT]Best regards,[/FONT][FONT][/FONT]
[FONT]Concealed Handgun Program[/FONT]
[FONT]Customer Relations Section[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]Our mailing address:[/FONT]
[FONT]Texas Department of Public Safety[/FONT]
[FONT]Concealed Handgun License Program, MSC 0245[/FONT]
[FONT]PO Box 4087[/FONT]
[FONT]Austin, TX 78773-0245[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]

[/FONT][FONT][/FONT]
[FONT]Texas Department of Public Safety[/FONT]
[FONT]Regulatory Services Division[/FONT]
[FONT]Phone: (512) 424-7293[/FONT]
[FONT]Website: TxDPS - Concealed Handgun Licensing[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]AGENCY CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: [/FONT][FONT]This electronic mail transmission is confidential, may be privileged, and should be read or retained only by the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the sender, destroy all electronic and non-electronic copies, and delete it from your system.[/FONT][FONT][/FONT]

 

[indpendnt]

 

[Dcav]

Nice!

 

[espy59lc]

When I replied back to Mr. Morgan at DPS for some Legal wording that I can use to back up what he is telling me, this is what he sent me:

[FONT]Please reference these links taken directly from the official website for the Arizona Department of Public Safety.[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]Questions and Answers: Concealed Weapons & Permits - Arizona Department of Public Safety[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]Concealed Weapons Reciprocal and Recognition Agreements - Arizona Department of Public Safety[/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT] [/FONT]
[FONT]Best regards,[/FONT][FONT][/FONT]
[FONT]Concealed Handgun Program[/FONT]
[FONT]Customer Relations Section[/FONT]

 

[Acera]

I would not count on it, lets see if Montgomery County investigates this on their own accord and comes up with the same determination, and reverses their stance.

I think that espy59lc's efforts may push this further than my interaction with them has. Good Job.

I am wondering if the folks at DPS may get proactive with this especially regarding the statements made in the email???


Fromespy59lc posting in post #69, it appears that DPS may think that it's a legal issue with AZ, while Montgomery County sees it as a violation of Texas Law. I really wish the factions at DPS that seem to be giving a different story (as referenced by the Deputy) would get together with those that are informing the rest of us and sort it out and come up with a unified answer and call the Montgomery County DA.

 

[espy59lc]

We can only hope. I forwarded all DPS e-mails (except the last one) to Constable Stitt. I may have come across as a dick, but whatever. I'll just make sure to never drive through Montgomery County after this. ;-)

 

[TheDan]

Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can enforce your own rules.

Of course it does...

 

[Acera]

One note that needs to be made, as related to me by the Deputy. He has been dealing with Law Enforcement Officers at TX DPS's management level. The emails that have been posted here are from clerical staff, that deals with citizen questions and not sworn officers. (I hope I wrote that correctly.)

I have also asked the Deputy to join this forum. If he does and joins in this discussion he must have balls of steel, but I would understand if he did not and came aboard later in other discussions. In my dealings he seems to be extremely conscientious and truly interested in getting this thing right.

 

[Texan2]

This info needs to get forwarded to the Texas Attorney Generals Office and if I were in that part of the state I would talk to a Ranger about his complete disregard for the law.
He is a DEPUTY Constable, which means he works under the elected Constable. Contact him. Also he cites that he talked to 2 ASSISTANT District Attornies....contact THE District Attorney.
Contact TSRA and the NRA.....this Constanble is being a complete horses ass and needs to be knocked down a few pegs. If he wants to disregard state CHL laws, what other laws is he also willing to disregard?

 

[Acera]

this Constanble is being a complete horses ass

As having talked to him on the phone, and communicated by emails, I disagree. Also I don't think he is taking this lightly or without backup.

 

[Bithabus]

As having talked to him on the phone, and communicated by emails, I disagree. Also I don't think he is taking this lightly or without backup.

He is. A non horse's ass would not have misread the law so drastically.

 

[espy59lc]

these customer service reps (I'm assuming) have to have some kind of training since essentially they are answering very important legal questions and giving legal advice. Texan2 - I will contact all parties listed when I get home back to the computer.

 

[TexasRedneck]

espy59lc....from his initial response to you, it would appear that he took exception to your initial correspondence to him. How about posting it verbatim - as you did with his?

 

[Jon Payne]

I think I'll just stick with my TX CHL and watch how this plays out.

 

[Dcav]

I think I'll just stick with my TX CHL and watch how this plays out.

x2