Neckbeards, Knuckleheads, and Attention Whores?

[breakingcontact]

Alright lemme weigh in. Why dont the recent open carry advocates go to Cabelas or the local farm supply store to exercise their rights?

They want attention. Not just attention for the cause but shocking attention that is about themselves.

I think most of us can discern the political activists vs the attention seeking activists.

I have beef with the latter and not the former.

Easy. See?

 

[breakingcontact]

Sapper tell us about your group. What policies to protect a good image were in place and so on?

 

[Mic]

Just to add to the statistical percentage of people on this board who feel that our rights are more threatened than aided by these OC folks, I'll add my name into the mix.
Count up how many have posted up that these are helping and how many of us are hurting.
There is a piece of data for you.

Notes:
- I fully support your right to open carry a long rifle.
- I fully support your right to open carry a handgun.
- If you walk onto any of my property open carrying either of these without my prior permission, I will not be happy and you will be asked to leave. You will likely have scared my family, my neighbors (if you did it at my suburban house - at the property, not so much), and me.

Now, being honest...if any of you OC supporters owned a business and somebody came into your business in a protest or education mode about their cause (that you don't care about one way or the other or even slightly support) without your permission, would you be happy? Let's say it was women's rights group? An immigration reform group? A save the homeless group? Now take into account that it bothers your customers. At the end of the day, are you going to think more highly of their cause? Bullshit to anybody who says yes to this!

 

[dustycorgill]

Just to add to the statistical percentage of people on this board who feel that our rights are more threatened than aided by these OC folks, I'll add my name into the mix.
Count up how many have posted up that these are helping and how many of us are hurting.
There is a piece of data for you.

Notes:
- I fully support your right to open carry a long rifle.
- I fully support your right to open carry a handgun.
- If you walk onto any of my property open carrying either of these without my prior permission, I will not be happy and you will be asked to leave. You will likely have scared my family, my neighbors (if you did it at my suburban house - at the property, not so much), and me.

Now, being honest...if any of you OC supporters owned a business and somebody came into your business in a protest or education mode about their cause (that you don't care about one way or the other or even slightly support) without your permission, would you be happy? Let's say it was women's rights group? An immigration reform group? A save the homeless group? Now take into account that it bothers your customers. At the end of the day, are you going to think more highly of their cause? Bullshit to anybody who says yes to this!

ding ding ding

 

[karlac]

I support the OC crowd in that I support anyone who is exercising their rights, regardless whether the exercising thereof is popular.


What I don't support is the 'less than persuasive' way they go about exercising said right in an unfocused attempt to prove a point, particularly in this cultural climate.


In short, our opposition is remarkably capable, clever and cunning in the way they are able, and their leadership facile enough, to seemingly turn any issue to their advantage.


We seem to be sorely lacking in those attributes necessary to do so; and, unfortunately, no where does that fact manifest itself more than in what we see, and the tastes left in our collective mouths, after some of these OC "rallys".


What we are lacking in our attempts to protect our constitutional guarantees is the "leadership" to focus our efforts. There has yet been anyone to fill that absolutely necessary leadership void ... and it ain't gonna happen without one.

 

[TXARGUY]

Sapper tell us about your group. What policies to protect a good image wear in place and so on?

This is a good question to ask.

What policies does your group have in place concerning public appearance? Acceptable attire? Activities? Do you have a well spoken, group appointed spokesman who every interviewer or media representative can be referred to for questions or statements concerning your group's activities and goals?

And Sapper, I have tried, and I believe others have as well, to be very careful not to attack you personally or your group specifically while getting my point across as clearly as possible.

I know you will do yourself, your opinion and your group a favor and at the least add a little credibility to your argument by doing the same.

 

[Savage805]

LOL
Let's all chuckle cause like MH said ... we've all done it. Putting crap in writing on the internet is a double edged sword.

But lets not allow a faux-paux take away from a meaningful conversation about a very sensitive subject. The intent was pure of heart ...

+1

 

[45tex]

One thing I'd like to see, how about a law that makes a no open carry sign apply to every gun. That would include those oh so scary guns our wanna be army police officers carry. If you want no guns be honest and mean NO guns.
Its the outlawing of concealed carry that bothers me. That's just stupid. And I don't even have a chl.

profound thinking about stuff

 

[Hoji]

?Open Carry? Idiots So Dumb Even The NRA Is Yelling At Them Now

New Trajectory: "Open Carry" Backfires

Texas Gun Nuts Force Two More Restaurant Chains To Ban Firearms - Business Insider

http://mobile.rawstory.com/all/2014...fter-texas-roadhouse-bans-open-carry-circus#1

Open Carry Texas parades into more restaurants with guns, but restaurants won't serve them

Video: Open Carry Activists with Rifles Get Tossed from Chili?s and Sonic | Mediaite

Obama Plotting ?Open Carry? Restaurant Massacre ?Alex Jones Event in Dallas on May 31, 2014 May be Targeted | Truther.org

Why Chipotle Just Banned Guns | Mother Jones

Hardee's Restaurants Preparing To Ban Firearms At All Locations!

Texas Mall open carry incident leads to CCH permit holders being punished - Bearing Arms

Restaurants banning open carry

No-Gun Policies Announced by Chili's, Sonic - Police & Fire - Doylestown-Buckingham-New Britain, PA Patch

Snark Amendment: #OpenCarry Storms the Home Depot

National Rifle Association blasts Texas? open-carry protests as ?dubious? and ?downright weird? | Dallas Morning News

Texas Gun Groups? Circular Firing Squad - The Daily Beast

Cloverland Park incident raises open carry gun issue in Corvallis

Most Americans Want No-Gun Policies At Shops, Restaurants

I know you didn't read those and I didn't expect that you would but you asked for empirical evidence of the damage/harm your demonstrations are causing.

There are literally thousands of examples (empirical evidence) I could post.

I sure don't remember these popping up every single day in my various news feeds before the open carry movement was hijacked. The movement used to be respectful and focused on changing current laws through legislative channels and political action committees.

Today, long respected open carry groups that were making great in-roads into changing public opinion and were working diligently to change or correct vague or 2A oppressive laws and ordinances are disbanding. The groups would rather cease their operations that were doing good than be hijacked by the few fringe idiots that somehow found their way into it's membership.

Taken over by the fringe "Let's go ed-u-mi-kate duh public folks hurr hurr" idiots.

These groups, gun clubs, forums, action committees etc... have many times tried to introduce the concept of reason to the idiots but there is no reasoning with a guy who wants to walk into a currently free and un-signed private establishment carrying his POS $500 bubba'd the **** up rifle with his neckbearded buddies.

Even open carry supportive and organizing groups are asking the idiot fringe to tone it down:



Instead, the idiot fringe has through its efforts, become the national face of gun ownership.

And I am not happy about that. So yes I call them idiots, neckbeards or whatever the hell else I decide to call them based off of what I truly believe them to be.

"Educating the public" LOL, that's a good one.

Your doing a great job at educating corporations and property owners how to post 'no guns' signs. Because of your actions just in the span of a few days five national restaurant chains (Starbucks, Wendy's, Applebees, Jack in the Box and Chipotle Mexican Grill) emitted press releases in which they requested their clients to not enter their establishments while carrying firearms.

These corporations and property owners are just the leading element. Hundreds of others are watching, paying attention, to the "education efforts" and will soon follow.

The domino effect that the idiots have created is already in motion and will not be stopped easily.

All of the efforts we have made legislatively right here in Texas towards legal open carry of sidearms are now in serious danger of failing thanks to the "public education events".

These "Open Carry" demonstration groups couldn't be doing a better job of turning public opinion against lawful gun owners and rights even if they were paid employees/operatives of Moms Demand Action, The Huffington Post, Turn Texas Blue, The Brady Campaign or Barack Obama himself.

In fact the open carry demonstration crowd is an unexpected but welcome, beautifully wrapped gift to such groups.

Unfortunately, they are too ignorant to understand that.

.but until one of you presents some empirical evidence that OC movements ARE damaging our efforts to support the 2nd Amendment then all you're presenting are opinions and you all know what we say about opinions.

Game, set, match.

 

[breakingcontact]

 

[Vaquero]

Guns and grills
easy peasy

 

[txinvestigator]

.but until one of you presents some empirical evidence that OC movements ARE damaging our efforts to support the 2nd Amendment then all you're presenting are opinions and you all know what we say about opinions.

Game, set, match.

You are kidding, right? Game, set, match? He presented facts and your response is, "does not", so you think you won?

 

[Vaquero]

When the same team opposes itself, who wins?

 

[breakingcontact]

I saw the Tarrant (sp?) Group is being investigated for their raffle. Oh boy.

 

[Tejano Scott]

Some excellent posts in this thread. I'd like to start here:

I think what everyone forgets is that this movement was meant to protest the ban on OC handguns.

Forget everything else you've read in this thread for one second. This is a great point. OC has a different feel when you're talking rifle vs. pistol. I think OC of long guns (which is already legal) to support your right to OC a handgun is not a good tactic. As Mexican Hippie pointed out, we're losing the fence sitters on this issue and I agree this is our issue to lose.

When the same team opposes itself, who wins?

Bingo boingo, another excellent post. The 2A movement is perhaps one of the worst at this I've seen. We'd probably have the NFA abolished and OC of bazookas if all the people who truly support firearm rights, to whatever degree, banded together. Meanwhile we call each other liberals, neckbeards, and other terrible names! I may be a neckbeard, but dammit I aint no libtard!

 

[Utah]

When the same team opposes itself, who wins?

When we provide the B roll images for our opponents to use to prove we are "out of touch", who wins?

 

[SIG_Fiend]

I 100% support OC for the simple fact that I feel it should be everyone's choice how and what you carry.

That being said, one of the things I don't really see being discussed is how gun owners, CHL holders, off duty LE, etc. see and think about some of these impromptu OC demonstrations if they witness them in person. It's one thing to hold a rally, maybe at a designated time, in a place that makes sense (the Capitol in Austin, outside a City Hall, etc.). Me, personally, if I'm in some random business and I see someone come in with a rifle in an urban area like Austin, my first thought is, "Is this guy an active shooter, and is it go time?!" Again, I fully support OC, but that is just reality and, in this day and age, common sense. Rural BFE Texas, no one cares and might even look at you funny if you aren't carrying something. In a typical urban city though, OC of a long gun simply isn't the norm anymore and should at least raise an eyebrow.

Another thing to consider; the sheer numbers. Best estimates I've seen from various sources/studies conducted within the past 2-4yrs is roughly 80-100 million known gun owners in the US. I'm sure the actual numbers are much higher. Imagine that, 80-100 MILLION of us, from all facets of society, all walks of life. Imagine if just 1% of us banded together regularly to do things such as rallies, protests, etc. Imagine a full 1 million gun owners marching on Washington DC to protest some new mindless gun control legislation. Imagine this being a regular event. Imagine small town protests of city ordinances and people showing up by the thousands or tens of thousands. We could accomplish things unlike just about any other group of people in any civilized country. Division and infighting are two of the main things that prevent that from happening.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

I'm 100% for OC of any gun you can legally carry. I'm also 100% on the side of these guys who are out doing a walk and decide to stop somewhere to eat as long as they maintain the rules I thought everyone was supposed to be going by. OCT has put out that you should:

-Contact any business's you plan on visiting and get the managers permission ahead of time. Also, contact the local police and let them know where you will be walking or visiting and when.

-Dress normal like you would going to work or a normal family outing. No tactical clothing, camo, etc.

-Don't go up to anyone. Let them approach you, and stay polite at all times.

-Keep your gun strapped on you at all times, and slung across your back pointing to the ground.

The things that have been starting to wear on me is these times where you see 80% of the members whipping out their phones to record any time a LEO comes up or anyone who dares have a different view. They need to just select one or two camera people, and stay polite. I've seen far more videos of them screaming at officers than I have of them trying to have a calm discussion with the officer. When have you ever seen ANYONE get out of a jam by screaming at an officer? Once those cuffs come out-unless they're just questioning you, your ass is going to the big house. It will be up to the judge to sort it out. I've seen a few officers that you could tell were willing to have a normal conversation, but because their view was different from the OCT guys, then that conversation wasn't able to happen.

So, like I said-I support OC of anything, and I don't mind them going places as long as they stick to the basic rules. I just don't like what the open carry culture has seemed to become lately.


As far as those pics posted-with the exception of them having their guns around front and holding them-I don't see a problem with most of those. Just put your guns around back. Even the biker dudes-I'm cool with that. Bikers love their freedom just as much as anyone else. Many of them are vets who have fought for those freedoms. I realize it's a double standard to judge the guys dressed out like operators but not the bikers, but I don't care. It is what it is. Just be more natural with your gun instead of making your gun such a show.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

Sig-if we could get our country in GENERAL to start protesting things like we see overseas or like we used to have happen here in the past, I think we would see some changes for the better. Everyone is just too busy or too lazy to protest.

 

[Shotgun Jeremy]

As far as the OC events: The soccer moms don't like these. As a result they contact local and state politicians. As a result of that, local and state politicians have contacted the Texas lobbiests for the TSRA and the NRA and inquired if there is anything they can do about the OC events.

State legislatures have let it be known that these OC events are counter productive.

Charles Cotton (NRA board member), who has probably done more for 2A rights in Texas than anyone, has an interesting post today over at TX CHL forum.
I would advise visiting over there and give it a read.

TexasCHLforum.com ? View topic - OpenCarryTexas Lies About NRA

I just read that post. I'm done supporting OCT. He hit on a great point-they're doing all this out in public, disrupting people...but what are they doing to actually change any laws? Charles Cotton put down several examples of what the NRA and TSRA have been doing to help the laws. I can no longer voice any support for these OCT guys. I realize that OCTC is not OCT, and I don't have anything to say about OCTC since I haven't watched them much. But OCT-I'm jumping off that train.