NRA Supports Restrictions on Bump-Fire Stocks

[JColumbus]

We (gun owners) outnumber them (police and military) by quite a bit. Even if we trade one body for one body, we will win. I would like to think that they are smart enough to realize this, but then again, I remember that we're talking about people who work for the government, so that probably is not a given.

Yea. I do feel optimistic that a majority of the police and military will say "NO", but even if that happens, it will create a condition in the US, that I believe will lead to martial law, and possibly even the UN coming in.

When I thing about strategizing a forced gun confiscation, in the US, it always comes down to an outside source being a necessity, in order to get it done. So I hope things are very organized before my house gets targeted, if that happened. I'd prefer to join a resistance, instead of dying in my dining room.

 

[NavyVet1959]

Compromising with leftists is kind of like how we used to describe the sexual foreplay / conquest of females in our younger days. We would get to 1st base, and then use that as a base to strive for 2nd base. Once at 2nd, we would argue that she had already gone *that* far, what's the harm with 3rd base. And once we got there, it was just a place where we could use to shoot for a home run which was our goal all along. For the leftists, repealing the 2nd Amendment is their ultimate goal and if they succeed we will be just like our dates way back then -- we'll be screwed. The NRA is under the clueless opinion that by allowing them to get to one base, they will stop there. The are idiots in that they refuse to learn from history. Unfortunately, some of that history was *caused* by them when they helped craft anti-2nd-Amendment laws. They need to quit with the appeasement excrement and promote an active resistance to the leftists. The leftists don't want to live with us, they want to totally destroy our way of life. Until we wake up and realize that they are our mortal enemy and treat them as such, we are doomed.

These leftists are not just misinformed, misguided individuals, they are evil-incarnate and should be treated as such.

 

[Low_Speed]

Yea. I do feel optimistic that a majority of the police and military will say "NO", but even if that happens, it will create a condition in the US, that I believe will lead to martial law, and possibly even the UN coming in.

When I thing about strategizing a forced gun confiscation, in the US, it always comes down to an outside source being a necessity, in order to get it done. So I hope things are very organized before my house gets targeted, if that happened. I'd prefer to join a resistance, instead of dying in my dining room.

You’re naive. Police and military had no problems going door to door confiscating people’s guns during Katrina. Most of those people still haven’t gotten their weapons back. Most people will fall back to “I was ordered to do it”.


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[busykngt]

Low_Speed, you express the greater concern I have. I’m not nearly as optimistic as some here on the forum, that the police and/or military would refuse an illegal/unlawful order. Just look at what the FBI (& local law enforcement) did at Ruby Ridge and Waco - and barely avoided at the “cattle standoff” with the rancher in Nevada. I was an Army officer for six years and I’m very comfortable in saying the, “I was just following orders” mantra was alive and well the last I saw. Now, to be fair, not all the officer corps would follow that course of action. But in my subjective judgement, you certainly wouldn’t get anything better than 50% - and most likely, not that high, in supporting the abstract concepts in The Constitution versus direct “official chain of command” orders (My Lai example). So I think generally, with the military, it would be a true civil war type rebellion - most dangerous. And my gut feel with LEOs, is the situation would be even less favorable concerning supporting our Constitutional Rights (BOR). This would be especially true if the President suspended the writ of habeas corpus, like Lincoln did during the civil war (holding people in prison without “due process”). In my judgement, you could expect the absolute worse out of the vast majority of our LEOs.

 

[JColumbus]

You’re naive. Police and military had no problems going door to door confiscating people’s guns during Katrina. Most of those people still haven’t gotten their weapons back. Most people will fall back to “I was ordered to do it”.


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I wouldn't say naive, but hopeful/faithful.

I'm aware of what happened during Katrina and it was a small unit, as I understand. So that's hardly a good example as to what would happen in the US, in my opinion. I believe that different state's governments would have different degree of fight in it and I DO believe, as long as it's Abbott, or someone similar, that Texas would even go as far as to tell us to fight.

When the military was running drills in Texas, Abbott ordered the state guard to monitor it.

So again, naive?..

na·ive
nīˈēv/
adjective

1. (of a person or action) showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment.

...hardly. But in the case of the naivety (inexperience) that I DO have in the matter, we pretty much all share. Perhaps I am not wise, but I know I have good judgement, and in turn, I know that most will not do that, on that scale.

Think about it. No excuses for the guys who confiscated during Katrina, but pertaining to their "following orders" state of mind, I believe that it was simply due to the fact that it was a natural disaster and therefore figured there was no use in making a fuss and choosing not to follow orders.

Put those same guys in a situation where they are "ordered" to confiscate all of American's guns, WITHOUT the 2A being amended to change it's support for civilians owning guns or outright done away with, I believe at least half of those men would stand up for our second amendment and resist.

Heck, we've already seen how many Sheriffs and police spoke out against the limited magazine laws. I DO think that police departments, in general would support the hypothetical confiscation, due to most of the chiefs being appointed and by liberal leaders. However, I still think most police would resist.

So to summarize; I don't believe I am naive, though maybe I am. I simply have faith in my fellow Americans in uniform.

NOW, if they appointed any leftist civilian, in the country, as "designated confiscators"... Well I have zero faith in the left, even as Americans. But I would not be worried. Those guys would run to a "safe space", as soon as anyone contests, in the slightest.

 

[majormadmax]

You’re naive. Police and military had no problems going door to door confiscating people’s guns during Katrina. Most of those people still haven’t gotten their weapons back. Most people will fall back to “I was ordered to do it”.

Naive? Is that what you call someone who actually knows better?

I have been in, and working with, the military for over 35 years, and can attest that there is little if any enthusiasm at the prospect of having to disarm American citizens.

Same goes with law enforcement, and I also know and having been working with individuals in that profession for quite some time as well.

Stating either would have "no problems" is pure ignorance, just as the "just following orders" excuse you claim the military would use has been has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases from the Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II to the Army MPs at Abu Ghraib.

Try giving our folks in uniform a bit more credit than that!

 

[easy rider]

Comparing a localized incident where a politician convinced some of the police that people would be using firearms to loot stores and homes during a disaster is a bit different then a nation wide confiscation. Now I'm not saying there won't be those that follow orders, but there will also be those, if not before, but while they come up against resistance decide they can't do it. Many of those may in turn become the resistance.

I hope to God it never happens, but I will be damned if I will live at the heels of a fascist state.

 

[NavyVet1959]

You’re naive. Police and military had no problems going door to door confiscating people’s guns during Katrina. Most of those people still haven’t gotten their weapons back. Most people will fall back to “I was ordered to do it”.

That excuse didn't work at Nuremberg and it shouldn't work now.

 

[Low_Speed]

That excuse didn't work at Nuremberg and it shouldn't work now.

It actually did. How many Nazis were brought to trial and sentenced. A very small group. It was decided that it would be against Germany’s Best Interest to prosecute all the Nazis.


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[majormadmax]

It actually did. How many Nazis were brought to trial and sentenced. A very small group. It was decided that it would be against Germany’s Best Interest to prosecute all the Nazis.

Wow, you don't do any research, do you?

Out of the 24 tried in Nuremberg, the only ones that didn't get life or death sentences were those who committed suicide before their verdicts, a radio commentator, an industrialist, and a banker and economist (so three civilians). None of the military personnel tried escaped conviction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials#Trial

Also, The Nuremberg tribunal was solely for major war criminals. Many more individuals were also tried and convicted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Axis_personnel_indicted_for_war_crimes

 

[NavyVet1959]

It actually did. How many Nazis were brought to trial and sentenced. A very small group. It was decided that it would be against Germany’s Best Interest to prosecute all the Nazis.

But for the ones who were brought to trial and who used that excuse, it did not work so well for them.

 

[Younggun]

If you want to find examples of people getting away with atrocities you are better off looking at Japan. Unit 731 to be specific.

Many of those implicated went on to very successful careers...in places that would make you question humanity.

 

[pronstar]

Our own science and technology programs (e.g. rocketry, nuclear) had no problem hiring ex-Nazis.




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[Younggun]

Our own science and technology programs (e.g. rocketry, nuclear) had no problem hiring ex-Nazis.




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Try taking part in the live vivisection without anesthetics of prisoners who'd been purposely infected with terrible diseases (men, women, pregnant women, children), freezing the limbs off of live subjects, strapping prisoners to poles and setting off land mines and grenades at varying distances to study the effects, shooting men, women, and children in different parts of the body to study the effects, and more... then receiving immunity and taking high level positions in the private medical and public health sectors in the US.

 

[majormadmax]

Our own science and technology programs (e.g. rocketry, nuclear) had no problem hiring ex-Nazis.

Not every member of the Nazi party committed war crimes. In fact, to hold any position of authority (government or civilian) in Germany at the time, one had to be a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP)...

 

[JColumbus]

But for the ones who were brought to trial and who used that excuse, it did not work so well for them.

If you want to find examples of people getting away with atrocities you are better off looking at Japan. Unit 731 to be specific.

Many of those implicated went on to very successful careers...in places that would make you question humanity.

I think we've taken the point and watered it down. The point is, we have a second amendment, and without going through the process of amending it, in the left's favor FOR confiscation, or doing away with it, our fellow red blooded Americans just wouldn't do that to us. SOME WILL, and they WILL fail.

The US would have to call in the UN, or some other external force.

Even THEN, the bulk of us would have united and nobody can stop us. It'd be an all out war.

The 2A is safe. It very well may get watered down a tad, but it's safe.

I live close to fort bliss. LOTS of Army friends and family friends were DEA and other agencies due to my father's military and DEA background. NOT ONE... I stress NOT ONE of them would EVER follow unconstitutional orders like that, against their own people.

Now think about how many we have that are retired and veterans that are now civis... NO WAY.

Guy, it's not like the Nazis had a constitution that said "Neva poot Jew in goncenthrashawn gamp".

We're arguing apples and tennis balls.

And hope all is well with you younggun.

 

[busykngt]

Personally, I view the results of the Nuremberg Trials, mixed at best. Twenty-four indicted; only half of them sentenced to death - actually 11 (since Bormann, unknown to them at the time was already dead). My view is that not a big distinction can be made between “civilian” leaders and military leaders for Nazi Germany - they ALL bent to Hilter’s will and vision for the future of the thousand year Reich - they were all geared toward the same end objective. Three got “Life” sentences - two of the three released from prison (so, not “Life”). Four got prison sentences from 10 to 20 years - I believe only two of the four served their full sentence. All the other Nuremberg defendants were released. Thus, I see it as a “mixed bag” of results.
Virtually all of them claimed to have “just been following orders” and if, at some point during the trial, they expressed remorse or regret over their actions, they were shown a considerable amount of leniency (to include, acquittal).

 

[pronstar]

Not every member of the Nazi party committed war crimes. In fact, to hold any position of authority (government or civilian) in Germany at the time, one had to be a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP)...

That's a bit of a slippery slope, methinks.
One could easily make the case that Wernher von Braun, by "fathering" the V2 rocket program, committed war crimes (ask anyone who lived in London during that era), yet he went on to head our own space program.

 

[Low_Speed]

Naive? Is that what you call someone who actually knows better?

I have been in, and working with, the military for over 35 years, and can attest that there is little if any enthusiasm at the prospect of having to disarm American citizens.

Same goes with law enforcement, and I also know and having been working with individuals in that profession for quite some time as well.

Stating either would have "no problems" is pure ignorance, just as the "just following orders" excuse you claim the military would use has been has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases from the Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II to the Army MPs at Abu Ghraib.

Try giving our folks in uniform a bit more credit than that!

When I find someone that knows better they won’t get tagged with the tag of being naive. I haven’t found anyone yet but I’ll keep looking. I’ve been in uniform too and the facts that you’ve served means nothing. People are people whether in uniform or not. Cops and military personnel are not immune to doing unjust and immoral actions because they were ordered to do so. Historically, you can’t ignore it. Or you could and just be naive.


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[easy rider]

When I find someone that knows better they won’t get tagged with the tag of being naive. I haven’t found anyone yet but I’ll keep looking. I’ve been in uniform too and the facts that you’ve served means nothing. People are people whether in uniform or not. Cops and military personnel are not immune to doing unjust and immoral actions because they were ordered to do so. Historically, you can’t ignore it. Or you could and just be naive.


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Think much of yourself?