Ok Austin, can we get some good gun laws now?

[MR Redneck]

You did not even know you could open carry a long arm in Texas, so perhaps you should learn Texas Gun Laws first before you pass judgment on whether they could be better or worse.

And Cliff quotes the opencarry web site, which I have already pointed out contains factually incorrect info.

So it seems to me a lot of the opinions here about Texas guns laws are coming from folks who either do not know Texas Law or are distorting it to fit their own Agenda.

Go to this thread and tell us what you think needs to be improved:

http://www.texasguntalk.com/forums/...s/18919-what-your-legislative-priorities.html

Before you go telling someone they can carry a long gun in the state of Texas, make sure you explain that to all Law Enforcement! Even though its legal, the BS "Alarm" part of that is where LE become the problem.
So no sir, you cant carry a long gun in Texas without having a bad day!

 

[Texan2]

Before you go telling someone they can carry a long gun in the state of Texas, make sure you explain that to all Law Enforcement! Even though its legal, the BS "Alarm" part of that is where LE become the problem.
So no sir, you cant carry a long gun in Texas without having a bad day!

Not trying to argue but as already stated.....People do it all the time.

 

[Cliffh]

Laws tell you what you can't do, not what you can do. If you are traveling, you are exempt from 46.02. Thus you can carry open, concealed, loaded, unloaded, whatever, basically no [carry] laws apply.

In summary, if you are a law abiding citizen then car carry is lawful as long as the handgun remains concealed, and you can carry on your own premises or premises under your control.

Can you please reconcile those two statements?

 

[Renegade]

Can you please reconcile those two statements?

Sure.

Car Carry is a non-legal term. What TXI meant was carrying under PC46.02 (a-1) - AKA Motorist Protection Act. This allows limited, regulated carry under 46.02. There is near zero Case Law on this.

Traveling means carrying under PC46.15 (b) (2) Traveling. This allow complete Non-Applicability from 46.02. There is over 100 years of Case Law on this.

 

[Cliffh]

From TXI's part 2:

Traveling is not defined. The old “crossing three counties” and other speculated definitions just are not. Personally, I would not rely on this section, as what YOU consider traveling and what a police officer or judge might consider could be vastly different.

So, we have one part of the law saying that can not have a handgun in plain view in their vehicle, yet another part that says one doesn't have to conceal if they're traveling.

Sec. 46.02:

(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or


Sect 46.15:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is traveling;

Unless the law was written to only convict those who had/have a handgun in the vehicle while they're parked; which I doubt.

Another point: In the above quote, it's mentioned that you could end up having a bad day because an officer might interpret a handgun law differently that you would. This could, and I'll bet has, happened with long guns also.

 

[Bithabus]

From TXI's part 2:



So, we have one part of the law saying that can not have a handgun in plain view in their vehicle, yet another part that says one doesn't have to conceal if they're traveling.

Sec. 46.02:

(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or


Sect 46.15:
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
(3) is traveling;

Unless the law was written to only convict those who had/have a handgun in the vehicle while they're parked; which I doubt.

Another point: In the above quote, it's mentioned that you could end up having a bad day because an officer might interpret a handgun law differently that you would. This could, and I'll bet has, happened with long guns also.

Missing link here is the definition of "traveling". "Traveling" is not driving to work or the store, it is not tooling around your neighborhood or going to visit your friend down the street. Think of traveling as a road trip.

 

[Cliffh]

So, if I drive to the corner grocery store I better make sure it's concealed, but if I'm driving to the grocery store in the next town it can be in the open?

 

[KAK]

I was under the impression that the whole traveling thing was repealed when we got the castle doctrine. Laws should never be this confusing.

 

[MR Redneck]

Not trying to argue but as already stated.....People do it all the time.

I know your not trying to argue no more than Im wanting to turn this discussion into something negative. And yes, I often carry a long gun in public but the places I do such a thing are in places where the LE guy's know me and understand why I do such a thing. In Midland, Hell no! The Midland PD has no respect for a mans rights at all! Thats evident of their past! If I were to carry a long gun in places other than were im known, i'll get a free ride to jail. The simple fact that people will get harassed for exercising that right show the flaw in the Law.
My recently retired neighbor has been walking her dog around the block. We have idiots with unmanaged pitbulls, drunk traffic, and dirtbags all around here. The other day when I saw here down the road I stoped and asked her if she wanted to swap me her yard stick for my model 60. The fact that either can be considered as a weapon would make me choose the "real" weapon. I guess she doesnt want to " Alarm" the dirtbags while she's walking the dog.

 

[MR Redneck]

So, if I drive to the corner grocery store I better make sure it's concealed, but if I'm driving to the grocery store in the next town it can be in the open?

I wouldnt bank on that law with the way things are in Texas right now. You know as well as I do, you'll be up the creek! Hide your guns and say" Nope, nothing illegal in my truck"!

 

[Bithabus]

So, if I drive to the corner grocery store I better make sure it's concealed, but if I'm driving to the grocery store in the next town it can be in the open?

Next town over probably isn't far enough. Day trip or overnight trip is best. If it's going to be important call the DA's office in the jurisdictions where you will be traveling and ask them for their working definition. Of course, you could just conceal the gun.

 

[Texan2]

I was under the impression that the whole traveling thing was repealed when we got the castle doctrine. Laws should never be this confusing.

Castle doctrine has nothing to do with your car or traveling.

 

[Texan2]

I know your not trying to argue no more than Im wanting to turn this discussion into something negative. And yes, I often carry a long gun in public but the places I do such a thing are in places where the LE guy's know me and understand why I do such a thing. In Midland, Hell no! The Midland PD has no respect for a mans rights at all! Thats evident of their past! If I were to carry a long gun in places other than were im known, i'll get a free ride to jail. The simple fact that people will get harassed for exercising that right show the flaw in the Law.
My recently retired neighbor has been walking her dog around the block. We have idiots with unmanaged pitbulls, drunk traffic, and dirtbags all around here. The other day when I saw here down the road I stoped and asked her if she wanted to swap me her yard stick for my model 60. The fact that either can be considered as a weapon would make me choose the "real" weapon. I guess she doesnt want to " Alarm" the dirtbags while she's walking the dog.

I guess in the part of the state I live in this topic is a non-issue. I difer to those of you in the more uptight regions of the state

 

[Renegade]

I was under the impression that the whole traveling thing was repealed when we got the castle doctrine. Laws should never be this confusing.

No, it is still in full force.

 

[ROGER4314]

Things are moving in the right direction but they are moving! I remember when we were treated by the Legislators like sick, wife beating well.......the list goes on. At least we are gaining ground.

Flash

 

[Cliffh]

Next town over probably isn't far enough. Day trip or overnight trip is best. If it's going to be important call the DA's office in the jurisdictions where you will be traveling and ask them for their working definition. Of course, you could just conceal the gun.

Concealed is the way I travel, always. I'm trying to get someone to reconcile some of their statements with the way the laws are written....

The discussion of whether a handgun must be concealed or not shouldn't even have to take place. The laws need to be clear; since they aren't, they must be changed.

 

[Renegade]

The discussion of whether a handgun must be concealed or not shouldn't even have to take place. The laws need to be clear; since they aren't, they must be changed.

Texas law is chronological. The easiest way to understand is like this.

1871 - Law passed making carry of handguns illegal. No exceptions.

Ever since then we have been watering it down, but have yet to achieve full repeal.

That is why it is confusing. Each "carve out" stands on its own.

 

[Cliffh]

Renegade

Earlier in this thread you were dismissing all of OpenCarry.org's maps because, according to you, the first map was incorrect in claiming that a handgun had to be concealed in a vehicle. Since we've been reviewing the laws, we seem to have found that, in most cases at least (assuming most vehicular travel in TX isn't a day or overnight trip), a handgun must be concealed in a vehicle. Do you agree?

ETA:

Ever since then we have been watering it down, but have yet to achieve full repeal. That is why it is confusing. Each "carve out" stands on its own.

TX law is similar in that respect to the laws I've seen in other states. It would be nice, but very impractical, to repeal every law on the books and start fresh. Since that's not possible, IMO the next best thing is to repeal/rewrite large chunks at a time. No more of this "little bit here, little bit there" stuff - big chunks. If not, we're just doing the same thing as has been done in the past, which has resulted in the confusing mess we have now.

What was that definition of insanity again.....?

 

[Renegade]

Earlier in this thread you were dismissing all of OpenCarry.org's maps because, according to you, the first map was incorrect in claiming that a handgun had to be concealed in a vehicle.

No I asked you to provide the names of the states that had better gun laws than Texas, and you pointed to opencarry.org. They have a total of 10 maps, and only 2 show states with 1 instance of another state have a better gun law than Texas (open carry & campus carry). None show a state having the gun laws I named better than Texas. It also had two maps that were incorrect (Age, traveler). The other dozen+ gun laws are unmentioned. So you still have not named all these other states that have better gun laws than Texas.

And yes, this map is incorrect:

"Unlicensed Travelers" do NOT need to conceal any firearm, be it handgun, rifle, machine gun, whatever.

Since we've been reviewing the laws, we seem to have found that, in most cases at least (assuming most vehicular travel in TX isn't a day or overnight trip), a handgun must be concealed in a vehicle. Do you agree?

No. As previously stated, we were talking about gun laws, not handgun carry specifically. The fact is, the ONLY time a lawfully carried firearm has to be concealed is 1) it is a handgun and you are carrying under MPA, 2) it is a handgun and you are carrying under CHL.

All other times you can carry openly. That means long arms can be carried open or concealed at anytime, and handguns when traveling, hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity, or traveling to or from, ppo, soc, abc, etc. All those things in PC46.15(b).

So the overwhelming majority of the time when you can open carry. Only in two instances must you conceal.

 

[Fisherman777]

This is the way to curb crime: