Okay, update, I just filled out form 4473...

[Dawico]

Voluntary is not adjudicated or committed.

This right here makes it all pretty simple to me.

I have no idea if answering "yes" before red flags you permanently though.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

This right here makes it all pretty simple to me.

I have no idea if answering "yes" before red flags you permanently though.

With my dad’s case, it’s not so simple. It’s been bothering me all year, just because I want to know.

I’m also holding my grandpa’s revolver from dad without him knowing, as we took it when he was hospitalized, for his psychotic reaction to medication that isn’t going to happen again ever. It’s complicated, because his wife doesn’t want the gun back. But the wife is not the owner of the gun, my dad is. And he IS in his right mind.

I ask myself, is my dad now considered a prohibited person? For having a psychotic medication reaction so severe for ending up court ordered to a hospital for a week, and then released outpatient with soon after no need to follow up?

I am just curious.

If exception B has only to do with FEDERAL agencies, well, hmmm. Dad was court ordered by a local county court to attend treatment.

County court order is not federal. Thus, maybe this means that exception b doesn’t apply to my dad’s case, because 4473 instructions only specify exceptions with regard to FEDERAL AGENCIES.

I, personally, and professionally, have a need to understand this concept of question 11f as it pertains to the population.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Okay, so I contact the California Highway Patrol, and then the hospital I was admitted to. Once I get the proper records/documents, then what?

Then, you’ll need to read to comprehend what exactly occurred in a legal sense.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

What also made it bad in my dad’s case, the diagnosis provided at the end was incorrect. A nurse literally just jotted down whatever (major depressive disorder) as a discharge diagnosis.

I called the administrator, and got her to look into it, and sure enough, the correct diagnosis was one of four diagnoses floated in the middle of the chart all through. But the end diagnosis is the one that matters, and it’s a diagnosis that dad had ZERO symptoms of, and the head of the hospital admin researched once I bitched about it (she was on vacation during his stay and never returned several messages, nor did other supervisors, I was previously hung up on repeatedly etc.) and agreed with me on that and apologized, agreed discharge diagnosis was clearly wrong. She explained that nurses just wrote down whatever. Wow.

I asked her to call and apologize to my dad, because this was one of many big time problems we had during his stay, which she did.

This is Bellaire Behavioral, by the way.
https://bhbhospital.com/

Apology doesn’t change the medical record. Probably not worth hassling with though.

Follow up outpatient doctor weeks later provided confirmed documentation of the correct diagnosis, “steroid induced psychosis.” Psychotropics which were given to treat that, from hospital, were tapered off and no follow up needed.

But which records would apply when considering 4473? Inpatient? Or outpatient? Guess diagnosis doesn’t matter with regard to considering the impact of commitment on 4473, but in my dad’s case, the correct diagnosis explains everything with regard to his mental state and behavior, in light of his lack of potential to relapse.

No (ridiculously) high dose steroids, no psychotic relapse.

 

[easy rider]

Now I'm confused, I'd better not see blonde questions on the form when I go to pick up my 6mm creedmore this week.

 

[Southpaw]

Now I'm confused, I'd better not see blonde questions on the form when I go to pick up my 6mm creedmore this week.

Wigs shouldn't count...

 

[grumper]

View attachment 194469

References Unintended Consequences as well as a laundry list of other “wtf”

Use y’all’s best judgement.

Yup. Detecting much too high concentrations of ass banditry in this thread. Approaching dangerous levels.

 

[Southpaw]

What would be the point? Operation Shitty Internet Advice?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I was thinking more like opposition research.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Yup. Detecting much too high concentrations of ass banditry in this thread.

It’s really not. It’s seemingly purposefully obtuse the way the form is set out. That’s unacceptable, asking the majority of the population that doesn’t have access to the advice of a lawyer to correctly complete this question. Literally millions of people have been hospitalized for mental health concerns at one time or another.

They deserve to understand how to correctly fill out the damn form in plain language.

Those instructions, along with their exceptions, are not in plain language.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Well if “ass banditry” is approaching dangerous levels in here, and maybe if people don’t want to read real, in the trenches, opinions on this topic, there is always the back button.

I’m here because my ass got PAGED. People should think twice before doing that in the future if my many cents are not wanted.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Well if I have dyed my hair blond once, but it is not blond now, it is obvious to me I answer No.

Bush43 was convicted by the Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission. But the instructions say only US courts count, so he can answer No.

Not that hard really.

Can you tell me from reading the form, if exception b has to do with county courts that file the commitments ... or is it only federal agencies that their cases get a pass if treatment is no LONGER legally required?

And if it IS only with regard to federal agencies and not local courts ... then what sense does that make in relation to the mission of 4473 to screen purchases?

 

[FireInTheWire]

Glad your doing better man

 

[craigntx]

Never admit being wackadoo.
Thats how red flags get thrown

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Makes no sense the way I’m reading the exceptions now on the detailed instructions on the ATF 4473 form, page 5.
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/4...n-record-over-counter-atf-form-53009/download

So, riddle me this:

If your situation was bad enough to warrant the attention of a Federal agency commitment and now you don’t legally need any further treatment, exception b gives you a pass, so you can answer “no.”

But if you got county level to file commitment on you, and you don’t legally need any further treatment, you have to answer “yes?”

For a lesser level. What sense does that make?

 

[TexasRedneck]

For a lesser level. What sense does that make?

Watch out - I smell a plant!!! What sane person EVER expects a governmental regulation to make sense?!??

Nice try, Isis........

 

[benenglish]

I’m here because my ass got PAGED.

I'm not the one who did that but I'm glad someone did. Your presence in this thread is extremely valuable.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

Watch out - I smell a plant!!! What sane person EVER expects a governmental regulation to make sense?!??

Nice try, Isis........

Y’all know me.

And y’all should know by now what you are gonna get when I fixate on a thread.

 

[toddnjoyce]

What also made it bad in my dad’s case, the diagnosis provided at the end was incorrect. ....

Unfortunately, this is all to often a case any time someone sees any medical provider. What I often see when dealing with the FAA is that one’s medical diagnosis is assigned based on the CPT code for insurance billing, and may not be supported by the chart.

The FAAs position is incorrect diagnosis must be disproven, then the new, correct diagnosis (or lack thereof) must be supported by data.

For many people, the most dangerous thing to their career can be to see any medical provider outside of a cash only provider that doesn’t bill based on CPT codes.

 

[Wildcat Diva]

I'm not the one who did that but I'm glad someone did. Your presence in this thread is extremely valuable.

Thanks. Even though it probably just makes what should be simple stuff, become more complicated.

But really, if someone can explain to me what should be a simple answer by reading a form that the public has to use, then it helps me to help many people.

I’m tasked with interfacing with many people, people who have been involved at varying levels with the mental health system and still have legal rights to buy and own firearms, the details of which rights are not clear, but SHOULD be clear to all, WITHOUT the consultation of a lawyer.

 

[easy rider]

You're dealing with the government, they like legalese. Remember before online filing how difficult filing income tax was? Or are you too young?