Only FFLs at Austin Shows?!?

[Shorts]

How did HEB imped your rights to do anything? You don't have any right to buy or sell guns on HEB property. And the Constitution doesn't apply to HEB as it only restrains the actions of the government. By all means, don't shop at HEB if you don't like their position on this issue, but they haven't infringed your rights.

If they are in contract then they cannot just up and reneg on their own whim (or pressure from a source). Contract is a contract.

 

[Randy45]

All in all the authorities (APD & BATFE) have successfully (for now) shutdown any gunshows in Austin. Which is what really gripes me. It will probably be a long time before we actually get another show here either. Guess I am going to have to get used to longer drives in order to enjoy my collecting.

 

[Dallas239]

If they are in contract then they cannot just up and reneg on their own whim (or pressure from a source). Contract is a contract.

According to this recent article, TGS's agreement with the sub-leasee has always prohibited private-party sales without background checks. Why was Austin gun show cancelled?

 

[kurt]

Their lease was cancelled.

 

[majormadmax]

According to this recent article, TGS's agreement with the sub-leasee has always prohibited private-party sales without background checks. Why was Austin gun show cancelled?

This line in the article says it all...

Earlier in the meeting, Boedeker had indicated that he did not have a problem with restricting gun sales to licensed dealers.

So TGS realized this, still signed the contract, then denied knowing about it. Sorry, now we know who is ultimately responsible, and I for one will no longer frequent their shows.

But that doesn't matter, as we had another great SAXET show in SA this weekend, with none of this bull. I guess our friends to the north will have to take the trip down IH-35 if they want to attend a real gun show in the future...

 

[TexasRedneck]

Yep!

 

[texagun]

This from the NRA this morning:

Friday, January 22, 2010 NRA has received many inquiries about reports that the Austin, Texas Police Department and the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives tried to stop private gun sales at an Austin gun show.
It appears that these reports refer to a voluntary agreement concerning the transfer of firearms at the Austin gun show, evidently reached among law enforcement agencies, property owners and managers, and the gun show promoter in question. This was a self-imposed regulation, not a rule from the BATFE or an ordinance of the City of Austin.
NRA and our state affiliate, the Texas State Rifle Association, continue to research and investigate this matter--including examining whether this show was unfairly targeted.
Rest assured, we will inform our members of any new developments.

 

[Texas42]

Question:

Do the gun show people get a "cut" of all the gun tranfers? or do they just get money from entry fees of patrons and sellers?

 

[RetArmySgt]

From what was said by the organizer they were called into a meeting the day before the the show and it was said along the lines of "if you dont follow the regs we are putting out we will have the building inspected by code enforcement."

 

[majormadmax]

From what was said by the organizer they were called into a meeting the day before the the show and it was said along the lines of "if you dont follow the regs we are putting out we will have the building inspected by code enforcement."

That contradicts what the article said, but I would expect the organizer to make such a claim because to admit outright that he had agreed to this restrictions would have created even more blowback! At this point he has deniability but the more information that comes out, the more it is learned that Boedekerknew what was going on the entire time.

Sorry, Texas Guns Shows is ripping off gun enthusiasts; and as I said they will not get one more dime out of my pocket!

 

[TexasRedneck]

They've been doin' it for years - it's just that we're kinda slow to realize it....think back to their shows on Marbach - and the ones on Evers....

 

[RetArmySgt]

There was an audio tape taken at the meeting they had the night before and one of the lawyers invovled with the organization that has been hosting the protests and meetings has filed with the court for the tape. Every one please see the activism section for a protest coming up tommorow, more info in that post.

 

[majormadmax]

They've been doin' it for years - it's just that we're kinda slow to realize it....think back to their shows on Marbach - and the ones on Evers....

Yeah, I'm a sucker because I love going to gun shows! The chance to look at and hold potential additions to the collection is like crack to me, but even morons like myself eventually realize when they are getting the shaft. In retrospect I am glad the TGS show at Marbach is gone (I heard they pulled out because of SAXET), as I threw money away by attending those simply because of the close proximity. I can go to Action Pawn at the Marbach/410 intersection if I want to see ridiculously priced firearms, and for free!

Cheers! M2

 

[TexasRedneck]

M2, the difference being the prices at Action Pawn are usually better....

Like you, I love going to gun shows, simply because you never know what may walk through the door. But TGS shows are usually some of the most poorly-attended and (IMO) have some of the lowest-grade sellers. Not all of 'em to be sure - some of 'em are simply great folks - but I've seen more than one try to rip off the gullible.

 

[Burt Gummer]

I preface this post by saying I am an avid shooter and gun lover, with military and law enforcement experience so I have been on both sides of the law in my time.
I have read all of these above posts but some things are confusing me.

Is the main issue that APD is involved with arresting folks selling firearms to illegals and/or felons? If this is an issue could someone please explain why they would disagree.

Is there a logical argument to oppose why ALL firearm purchases at guns shows should NOT be through FFL/background check? If so please present it to me to help me understand. It seems a background check may weed out a few turds.

I read the news articles and they state that illegals are shopping sellers until they find one which will sell to them. Does anybody think that illegals should be able to buy guns easily? If so, please help me understand how it benefits you and me.

Overall, what I am getting is that many are mad that APD/BATFE are infringing upon their gun rights with the result of arresting folks selling to illegals and possibly felons. It seems as if many will not stand for any limitations no matter what criminal it catches or what trouble it saves. It is our right to feel that way of course but my sense of logic is still not grasping this.

Who has personally been affected by this recent incident with APD? Did it prevent YOU from buying a gun? Thanks for the responses and the info you guys will provide me.

 

[TexasRedneck]

Is the main issue that APD is involved with arresting folks selling firearms to illegals and/or felons? If this is an issue could someone please explain why they would disagree.

Is there a logical argument to oppose why ALL firearm purchases at guns shows should NOT be through FFL/background check? If so please present it to me to help me understand. It seems a background check may weed out a few turds.

I read the news articles and they state that illegals are shopping sellers until they find one which will sell to them. Does anybody think that illegals should be able to buy guns easily? If so, please help me understand how it benefits you and me.

Overall, what I am getting is that many are mad that APD/BATFE are infringing upon their gun rights with the result of arresting folks selling to illegals and possibly felons. It seems as if many will not stand for any limitations no matter what criminal it catches or what trouble it saves. It is our right to feel that way of course but my sense of logic is still not grasping this.

Good question(s) - let me try to articulate MY response...

1. I WANT them to arrest every felon/illegal/other that may not legally own a gun. What I find disingenuous is that this in in a city that has a long-standing policy of "ignoring" illegals unless the Feds call on 'em to assist. IOW, if they encounter an illegal, they figure it's "none of their business" unless they've broken some city/state law - yet they stand before them in violation of FEDERAL law. With the felons - I think I speak for ALL of us here when I say that if they buy/possess a gun, I wanna be on the jury that sends 'em back up the river.

What I DO NOT want them to do is to prosecute someone that unknowingly sold a weapon to someone that shouldn't have it. In the law, if you're arrested in a stolen vehicle, you can be charged with being in posession of it, but NOT in the theft of it, unless the officers SAW you steal it. In this case, the cops made a big deal about the guy that SOLD the gun - yet after interviewing him, he was released. They SAID that "there may be charges brought" - but that was more likely said so that they wouldn't have to say "there was nothing to charge him with".

From what I can understand (the reports are pretty disjointed), the illegal in question presented a Texas Drivers' license. Now, you give me one of those, and tell me that you can legally own a weapon - what am I supposed to do? Because if he's never been in legal trouble, guess what - he won't show up on a background check, either. And I'd REALLY like to know what the illegal alien is going to be charged with...and the final disposition of that case.

I WANT the laws upheld - but NOT at the cost of MY rights. That means that if I'm buying from a private individual, the Feds (nor anyone else) have NO business interferring in that transaction, or requiring said sale to be done via a FFL holder. That would start us down a slippery slope - because once they can require FFL's to perform ALL transactions, it's not THEIR fault if suddenly many FFL holders can no longer qualify for license renewal, is it?

No sir - stay OUT of private sales - and Austin is the opening salvo!

 

[TheDan]

Is there a logical argument to oppose why ALL firearm purchases at guns shows should NOT be through FFL/background check?

A private sale, is a private sale. It's no one's business other than the two parties involved. Making private sales illegal is a step towards more government control, and I don't agree that we need more. Criminals will still get their guns one way or another. The only people that will be effected by making private sales illegal is law abiding citizens.


So who's got a barn or a warehouse we could all meet up at for private gun show? No dealers allowed... Just a bunch of buddies getting together to show off their guns to each other, and if a private sale or trade happens it's nobody's business.

 

[majormadmax]

It's called the Second Amendment...

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Then there's all the laws of Texas that allow personal sales of firearms to other eligible residents without an FFL.

Do they check your driving record when you go to buy a car?

 

[SIG_Fiend]

It's about choice. Private FTF sales are legal in Texas, therefore no justification is required. It's not a far step from saying that all transfers must be through an FFL just because a few more criminals may be caught, to saying that because just a few more criminals can be caught if we have federal firearms REGISTRATION then everyone should have to register. That is unacceptable. Criminals will get the guns in some way or another if they really want them.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Good question(s) - let me try to articulate MY response...

1. I WANT them to arrest every felon/illegal/other that may not legally own a gun. What I find disingenuous is that this in in a city that has a long-standing policy of "ignoring" illegals unless the Feds call on 'em to assist. IOW, if they encounter an illegal, they figure it's "none of their business" unless they've broken some city/state law - yet they stand before them in violation of FEDERAL law. With the felons - I think I speak for ALL of us here when I say that if they buy/possess a gun, I wanna be on the jury that sends 'em back up the river.

What I DO NOT want them to do is to prosecute someone that unknowingly sold a weapon to someone that shouldn't have it. In the law, if you're arrested in a stolen vehicle, you can be charged with being in posession of it, but NOT in the theft of it, unless the officers SAW you steal it. In this case, the cops made a big deal about the guy that SOLD the gun - yet after interviewing him, he was released. They SAID that "there may be charges brought" - but that was more likely said so that they wouldn't have to say "there was nothing to charge him with".

From what I can understand (the reports are pretty disjointed), the illegal in question presented a Texas Drivers' license. Now, you give me one of those, and tell me that you can legally own a weapon - what am I supposed to do? Because if he's never been in legal trouble, guess what - he won't show up on a background check, either. And I'd REALLY like to know what the illegal alien is going to be charged with...and the final disposition of that case.

I WANT the laws upheld - but NOT at the cost of MY rights. That means that if I'm buying from a private individual, the Feds (nor anyone else) have NO business interferring in that transaction, or requiring said sale to be done via a FFL holder. That would start us down a slippery slope - because once they can require FFL's to perform ALL transactions, it's not THEIR fault if suddenly many FFL holders can no longer qualify for license renewal, is it?

No sir - stay OUT of private sales - and Austin is the opening salvo!

Excellent response to my questions, thank you! I know about the frustrations of dealing or more accurately, not dealing with illegal immigrants in Austin as I have worked there for a few years. I concur that a person who sold a firearm in a private sale to someone who displayed a TC ID/DL and does not claim to be a felon/family violence suspect, should not get charged with anything since it is obviously legal to do so.
I know the frustration that folks feel when they see something that makes no sense. Unfortunately, the city of Austin (not the police department since) has some silly policies and the government is the epitome of liberal. I can assure you, the department is NOT a liberal department. Over half of my shift are veterans and all have families so the dope smoking, free love, let the illegals suck up your taxes policies the city of Austin endorses are NOT shared by us. This I can guarantee you.

I am very interested as to why the firearms division of APD began looking into that particular gun show. If anybody is familiar with it then you are aware you could throw a rock and hit more than 1 of about 5,000+ illegal immigrants who live in that part of town. I have worked there on many occasions. Maybe BATFE came to APD or some firearms were recovered in Mexeeeco which brought upon this. Does anybody have and concrete data to tell why?

A private sale, is a private sale. It's no one's business other than the two parties involved. Making private sales illegal is a step towards more government control, and I don't agree that we need more. Criminals will still get their guns one way or another. The only people that will be effected by making private sales illegal is law abiding citizens.


So who's got a barn or a warehouse we could all meet up at for private gun show? No dealers allowed... Just a bunch of buddies getting together to show off their guns to each other, and if a private sale or trade happens it's nobody's business.

I am not for more restrictions, I am just trying to understand the logic behind the argument. I am aware that criminals will get their guns one way or another but if a group of 15 illegals who live in the same apartment (yep its common in Austin), walk the 2 or 3 blocks to the gun show and all buy guns from the trunk of a private seller, is that cool? It is legal but what do you think they want to do with those guns? Home protection? hunting? I can assure you that illegals in my town are not into either very much.
Personally, I thought it spoke strongly when it described that the illegals would go from vendor to vendor until they found one who did not want paperwork. Why do you think they searched for an easy sale? My answer is that because they are not legally allowed to purchase a firearm. I guess those 12 illegals could buy a few guns from another source but I do not see the logic in giving them free reign on buying whatever the hell they want at a gun show because it is legal.

My personal preference would be for the city to finally start enforcing the immigration laws and sending some of these turds back to the dirt shack which they came from. I know our taxes,schools, and hospitals would appreciate it too.