Powder Valley primers

[TexMex247]

Update us when you can. Curious about these...

 

[@TX_1]

Well I loaded a box with cleaned primer pockets and used the Ram Prime. I crushed the first couple a little. I don't think I've ever used the Ram Prime on my Classic Cast before. It did feel like there was a little more to go after the "release" which fools you into stopping. It's kind of hard to feel. We'll see.

Good luck. Keep me posted on what you find. I know others have had issues with miss fire. Most of those who tried seating harder than normal fixed it. Other issue is pistol related, seems some Glock firing pin are softer impact. Not sure how you would fix that one. I'm sure someone has found solution, so many 3rd party things available now for Glock's.

 

[Polkwright]

Update us when you can. Curious about these...

Will update, but it'll be a week or so. I've got half a dozen .38/.357's but I'm still betting on the Blackhawk if the Model 66 won't set these off.

 

[Deavis]

Will update, but it'll be a week or so. I've got half a dozen .38/.357's but I'm still betting on the Blackhawk if the Model 66 won't set these off.

How deep are you seating them? You need to be hitting .005" deep, no less that .003" in the worst case. Measure your seating depth and make sure you are putting them deep enough. We've seen some guns with modified springs not strike hard enough but that happens with other primer types on wheel guns. Especially if they were setup for Remington or Federal primers, which are soft as butter.

 

[Polkwright]

....and the results are in!

The last 75 of my first batch of 100 that refused to reliably fire in my S&W Model 66 fired fine in the Ruger Blackhawk. Zero failures. I shot them all up.

The 50 rounds I primed with cleaned primer pockets on a Lee Ram Prime, and seated with a little extra force at the end of seating, fired fine in my Model 66. Zero failures.

So these primers will fool you. I feel resistance at first, and then a "release", and then a second resistance, which at first made me think they were seated as soon as I felt it. You have to keep it up when you feel that second resistance. I don't think I could even feel this on my Dillon. My first batch didn't really have "high primers" per se, just "higher primers". The headspace on my Blackhawk is on the tight side and is not forgiving of even the slightest high primer.

I'm going to go back and see if I can seat these with the other methods I have and try to figure out the easiest way to use them. I wouldn't pay American primer prices for these. But right now I'd buy them again if the price was right and I needed primers. I've tried measuring primer depth but I don't really have a tool that will measure that reliably. A depth micrometer is on my wish list.

 

[@TX_1]

....and the results are in!

The last 75 of my first batch of 100 that refused to reliably fire in my S&W Model 66 fired fine in the Ruger Blackhawk. Zero failures. I shot them all up.

The 50 rounds I primed with cleaned primer pockets on a Lee Ram Prime, and seated with a little extra force at the end of seating, fired fine in my Model 66. Zero failures.

So these primers will fool you. I feel resistance at first, and then a "release", and then a second resistance, which at first made me think they were seated as soon as I felt it. You have to keep it up when you feel that second resistance. I don't think I could even feel this on my Dillon. My first batch didn't really have "high primers" per se, just "higher primers". The headspace on my Blackhawk is on the tight side and is not forgiving of even the slightest high primer.

I'm going to go back and see if I can seat these with the other methods I have and try to figure out the easiest way to use them. I wouldn't pay American primer prices for these. But right now I'd buy them again if the price was right and I needed primers. I've tried measuring primer depth but I don't really have a tool that will measure that reliably. A depth micrometer is on my wish list.

I have read a little about this issue since we talked last. Others have noted that the Argentine primers are slightly larger than what we make in the USA. And it appears to not fully seat because of it being slightly wider on edge of cup. There were some comments that using our normal primers after using the Argentine primers may be a little looser in the primer pocket. I've not seen that, but have heard some statements to that effect.

It is not unusual with foreign shotgun shell primers. I have an old 16gauge Model 12 Winchester pump, unable to buy ammo for it, so bought primed shot shell cases from MN. (Ballistic Products) I bought a tool that swedges the pocket into shape of our primers when I have to reload the hulls. So this is not an uncommon issue from foreign sources.

 

[Polkwright]

I have read a little about this issue since we talked last. Others have noted that the Argentine primers are slightly larger than what we make in the USA. And it appears to not fully seat because of it being slightly wider on edge of cup. There were some comments that using our normal primers after using the Argentine primers may be a little looser in the primer pocket. I've not seen that, but have heard some statements to that effect.

It is not unusual with foreign shotgun shell primers. I have an old 16gauge Model 12 Winchester pump, unable to buy ammo for it, so bought primed shot shell cases from MN. (Ballistic Products) I bought a tool that swedges the pocket into shape of our primers when I have to reload the hulls. So this is not an uncommon issue from foreign sources.

Hmmm....well if they stretch out the primer pockets maybe they'd be easier to seat the second time around? I think I'll segregate this brass and see how that works out, either repeating the Argentine primers or seeing if WInchester primers are now loose.

I measured them but I think I only measured the height.

 

[@TX_1]

Hmmm....well if they stretch out the primer pockets maybe they'd be easier to seat the second time around? I think I'll segregate this brass and see how that works out, either repeating the Argentine primers or seeing if WInchester primers are now loose.

I measured them but I think I only measured the height.

Since we are on the subject of components. I have observed something very unusual this week. The on-line wholesalers of reloading components and/or ammunition are having sales on products and they actually have inventory. I expected that with the pending sale of Vista Outdoor Products, but now it is spilling over to supply channels who were contracting which companies who depended upon Vista Outdoor Products for their brass and bullets for their ammunition lines. Example, Barnes. Just saw some of their brass, with Barnes labels as new arrival inventory. So the 1.91 Billion dollar sale of Vista Outdoor Products is going to make a Huge Splash, and then it will take a while for the waves to subside. I'm looking seriously about my current parts inventory and am trying to anticipate product shortages to again get worse and prices get higher. Not good thoughts, but likely.

 

[Polkwright]

Since we are on the subject of components. I have observed something very unusual this week. The on-line wholesalers of reloading components and/or ammunition are having sales on products and they actually have inventory. I expected that with the pending sale of Vista Outdoor Products, but now it is spilling over to supply channels who were contracting which companies who depended upon Vista Outdoor Products for their brass and bullets for their ammunition lines. Example, Barnes. Just saw some of their brass, with Barnes labels as new arrival inventory. So the 1.91 Billion dollar sale of Vista Outdoor Products is going to make a Huge Splash, and then it will take a while for the waves to subside. I'm looking seriously about my current parts inventory and am trying to anticipate product shortages to again get worse and prices get higher. Not good thoughts, but likely.

I'm not really connecting the dots on what you're saying.

 

[@TX_1]

I'm not really connecting the dots on what you're saying.

Think supply is increasing now, but after new company takes charge there will be a lag with supply tight. And prices will increase.

So I am buying what what I am low on to assure having what I need and to avoid the price increases.

I've looked for a chart with dimensions of primers between manufacturers, have not found one with the Argentine primers.

 

[TexMex247]

For the penny or two saved on them I'll pass. I recently got 20k CCI sp/sp mag for just under $300 per 5k. Doubt I'll see that price point again for a long time. No shipping,tax or hazmat either since it was a local buy. Also found some 205M at 7cpp after all the added bs. Better than academy for a marginally better primer.

I'm with TX_1. Buy now or cry later.

 

[@TX_1]

For the penny or two saved on them I'll pass. I recently got 20k CCI sp/sp mag for just under $300 per 5k. Doubt I'll see that price point again for a long time. No shipping,tax or hazmat either since it was a local buy. Also found some 205M at 7cpp after all the added bs. Better than academy for a marginally better primer.

I'm with TX_1. Buy now or cry later.

I did not need much. Placed orders in two warehouses a day apart. I'm sure 6 months from now, I will find more that I missed. Right now there are some surprisingly good buys. And it varies a lot from source to source. Vista Outdoor's sale will certainly cause some chaos in it's wake. And yes, fewer companies competing mean higher prices.

 

[Polkwright]

For the penny or two saved on them I'll pass. I recently got 20k CCI sp/sp mag for just under $300 per 5k. Doubt I'll see that price point again for a long time. No shipping,tax or hazmat either since it was a local buy. Also found some 205M at 7cpp after all the added bs. Better than academy for a marginally better primer.

I'm with TX_1. Buy now or cry later.

At the price I paid the savings are probably not worth the hassle. I'll agree with that. But if one day it's all I can find at least I'll know what I'm getting into.

 

[TexMex247]

Agreed nothing wrong with giving them a go. I bought 5k Remington 5-1/2s years ago. My 9 loads weren't 100% in my Glock 19 but they haven't gone to waste. I appreciate you posting some honest first hand experience. Valuable information to all of us.

 

[Deavis]

Hmmm....well if they stretch out the primer pockets maybe they'd be easier to seat the second time around? I think I'll segregate this brass and see how that works out, either repeating the Argentine primers or seeing if WInchester primers are now loose.

I measured them but I think I only measured the height.

The slight diameter variations are normal for most import primers. You see it lot to lot and you adjust to it as you run your machines. The primer will size to the pocket because the pocket will not expand to fit the primer's small diameter delta. Too much brass next to that primer pocket for it to deform appreciably as compared to the primer. As a rough measure, use the back end rod of your calipers to get a depth. It won't be perfect but with practice you can get very good and close to a fixture's measurement. This is seen in Ginex, Ruag, ZSR, Servicio, etc... They aren't CCI but you get used to the quirks.

 

[Polkwright]

The slight diameter variations are normal for most import primers. You see it lot to lot and you adjust to it as you run your machines. The primer will size to the pocket because the pocket will not expand to fit the primer's small diameter delta. Too much brass next to that primer pocket for it to deform appreciably as compared to the primer. As a rough measure, use the back end rod of your calipers to get a depth. It won't be perfect but with practice you can get very good and close to a fixture's measurement. This is seen in Ginex, Ruag, ZSR, Servicio, etc... They aren't CCI but you get used to the quirks.

That makes sense. In the decades I've been reloading I have no experience really with loose primer pockets. I'll cross that off the list of crap to worry about.

On the progressive machines there's a primer-stop. But on a lot of single-stage priming systems or hand priming devices there is no stop to set so it's a little more difficult. You have to go by "feel". I have yet to try them in my somewhat antique Dillon but I'll get around to that eventually.

I've tried the back end of the micrometer but it wasn't really working for me. I'll keep working on that.

I've loaded up a box of .380 to see if they'll go off in the only striker-fired gun I have. I'll try them in a hammer-fired one too.

Thanks for your knowledge and advice.

 

[Deavis]

If you are in the Auston area, you can stop by and use one of my fixtures to measure them properly. Then work your calipers so you can correlate them so you have a feel.

 

[Polkwright]

If you are in the Auston area, you can stop by and use one of my fixtures to measure them properly. Then work your calipers so you can correlate them so you have a feel.

Thanks, but I'm in Houston...

 

[RiverRider]

I have bought and still buy lots of components from Powder Valley, but there are merchants out there selling small pistol primers cheaper. Over the last couple of days I have seen Winchester SP primers for less than a nickel a pop. Not everywhere, but they're out there.

 

[Polkwright]

Just in case anybody wants to try these themselves, Powder Valley marked them down to $62.99/m a couple of days ago and now they have free hazmat today on a $99+ order.

I'm off to the range today to try them in my only striker fired pistol. I'll be back.....