Should the police be defunded/dismantled

[Renegade]

Tell me exaclty how one in uniform stops a black looter, firebomber, perp, etc. from doing anything if they choose to resist and not end up being charged/fired/reprimanded for excessive force, etc.?

Real simple. The same way policing has always worked. You see a crime, you make an arrest. That is your job.

What the da, judge, defense lawyer, jury, appeals court, scotus, etc does days, weeks years later is not relevant when a crime is committed in your presence.

 

[avvidclif]

Sounds very simple except when the orders from above are to do nothing.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[Renegade]

Sounds very simple except when the orders from above are to do nothing.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

if they are going to do nothing then they can be defunded.

so pick one earn your paycheck or get riffed

 

[avvidclif]

if they are going to do nothing then they can be defunded.

so pick one earn your paycheck or get riffed

What's the difference in getting fired for doing what you are told not to do and getting laid off because the PD is defunded???

 

[Renegade]

What's the difference in getting fired for doing what you are told not to do and getting laid off because the PD is defunded???

Follow your Oath of Office or move on.

 

[Ioannes]

True that police are standing down due to city government orders, but they are also under orders to arrest any patriots who want to stop a statue or monument from being destroyed.

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[oldag]

Abolish the police? Black residents in Harlem say no as white liberals push for it
https://www.foxnews.com/us/police-abolish-video-black-lives-matter-new-york-city

 

[pronstar]

I have a feeling woke lefties are behind a lot...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/police-abolish-video-black-lives-matter-new-york-city


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[ZX9RCAM]

I have a feeling woke lefties are behind a lot...

View attachment 217652


https://www.foxnews.com/us/police-abolish-video-black-lives-matter-new-york-city


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I have a feeling that you are behind a bit.

See the post just before yours.....





ETA: At least you didn't start a new thread.

 

[oldag]

ETA: At least you didn't start a new thread.

 

[etmo]

Abolish the police? Black residents in Harlem say no as white liberals push for it
https://www.foxnews.com/us/police-abolish-video-black-lives-matter-new-york-city

Well maybe if those blacks stopped voting for white liberals so damn often they wouldn't have this problem. They voted for those idiots, they get to reap the consequences.

 

[oldag]

Well maybe if those blacks stopped voting for white liberals so damn often they wouldn't have this problem. They voted for those idiots, they get to reap the consequences.

There you go again.

Using common sense and logic.

 

[benenglish]

It's always educational to listen to folks from the other side, at least the ones who aren't screaming and raving. There are some good points/observations made in this video.

NOTE: I'm not taking a side. I'm just trying to enhance the quality of the debate. This has been one of the better threads we've had in a while and I'd like to see it continue.

NOTE 2: He doesn't get to the question of defunding until ~5:50. The first half of the video is a cultural commentary that leads to his attempt to justify defunding. IOW, if your attention span is too short, you won't understand the video and you shouldn't waste your time on it.

 

[TheDan]

if your attention span is too short, you won't understand the video and you shouldn't waste your time on it.

 

[etmo]

It's always educational to listen to folks from the other side, at least the ones who aren't screaming and raving. There are some good points/observations made in this video.

NOTE: I'm not taking a side. I'm just trying to enhance the quality of the debate. This has been one of the better threads we've had in a while and I'd like to see it continue.

NOTE 2: He doesn't get to the question of defunding until ~5:50. The first half of the video is a cultural commentary that leads to his attempt to justify defunding. IOW, if your attention span is too short, you won't understand the video and you shouldn't waste your time on it.

Personally, without taking sides on the issue at hand, I felt like the video was crap.

Dude reads some tweet. As we all know, a tweet is nothing. I could post a tweet right now which says that Bigfoot is battling aliens at Area 51. So dude reads a totally unsubstantiated story on the internet. Oh, look, hashtag soldier and police, this guy MUST be a former soldier and policeman, right? Not some weirdo with an axe to grind, no sir, an honest man communicating pure truth! Because nothing on the net could ever be untrue! We don't need to hear the other side of the story, right? Of course not!

OK, fwiw. Let's hear what comes next, shall we?

Around 4:29, he then says, "This is the kind of story we hear all the time"
and then, "this really seems to be the culture in the police department" and then
"When I do wrong, you have my back. That's what that means". Not "if I do wrong", but "when I do wrong" is the quote.

So we go from hearing some unsubstantiated junk on the internet, right up there with Bigfoot and Area 51, and this guy decides that he now has some real insight into policing in our nation, and jumps from there to conclusions and asserting that all cops will do wrong, without ever even considering that this guy's story might be total BS. His pathetic lack of critical thinking skills means there's no mental warning bells as he concludes from this dazzling display of deductive power that the police should be defunded.

Again, not taking a position on any issue related to current events. The problem, which should be screamingly obvious to anyone with two brain cells to rub together, is that unsubstantiated BS being swallowed hook, line and sinker as if it was evidence in a court room or vetted science. Critical thinking skills have vanished in America. A moron such as the clown in the video should be sent back to elementary school to learn the fundamentals he obviously missed, but instead he's making videos which actually exacerbate the problems facing America.

He then goes on to make a few seemingly obvious talking points (the police shouldn't be handling mental health calls, and the police shouldn't be handling homelessness) and hey, that sounds reasonable, right? Well tell me, when a call comes in from a woman who is screaming that some guy is trying to murder her, what should the 911 operator do:
1) send the police
2) ask the woman to clarify if the would-be murderer is mentally ill, homeless or "other" so that the correct category of help can be sent

If you get that question wrong, you may want to take a deep look inside.

He then talks about how Detroit apparently spends way more money on police than health, and how this is so obviously wrong. He's just huffing and puffing with certainty that this is a great injustice. Well, read this first sentence from Wikipedia:
"As of 2018, Detroit had the third highest murder rate among major cities in the United States" . That's a really high murder rate. Hey, look at the crime rate across all American cities...Detroit ranks #2! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
That's extra-extra bad!

Maybe, just maybe, the citizens of Detroit have recognized their situation, and have allocated their budget as they see fit to best address the unique problems facing their community?

No. Can't be! Mr White Liberal from Canada is here to tell us what America needs, and hey, one size fits all! The police must be defunded!

TL; DR: maybe the police do need to be defunded, maybe not. But don't let some idiot from Canada with no critical thinking skills use twitter posts to inform your opinions on the subject.

 

[benenglish]

don't let some idiot from Canada with no critical thinking skills use twitter posts to inform your opinions on the subject.

A perfectly valid conclusion. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[avvidclif]

Another thought. Most police depts and cities want well educated officers and their quoted standards reflect that. That quality of person costs money and they want to pay GED wages. Difficult to bring the two together except for the ones that truly want to be in public service and try to make a difference. Recruiting good officers is extremely difficult and the atmosphere over the last decade has made it worse. Not even going to comment on current conditions. Defund away and the pay drops and then you get the knuckle draggers and HS bullies on a power trip.

 

[oldag]

Another thought. Most police depts and cities want well educated officers and their quoted standards reflect that. That quality of person costs money and they want to pay GED wages. Difficult to bring the two together except for the ones that truly want to be in public service and try to make a difference. Recruiting good officers is extremely difficult and the atmosphere over the last decade has made it worse. Not even going to comment on current conditions. Defund away and the pay drops and then you get the knuckle draggers and HS bullies on a power trip.

Much truth there

I always paid the people working for me well. And never regretted it. The return on the little bit of investment was fantastic.

 

[avvidclif]

And what it could be like:

 

[Axxe55]

Police perform many needed functions. Tracking down and arresting murderers rapists etc.
Recovering stolen items. Vehicle accidents , And other such tasks .

All that is really needed to fix the issue with policing can be accomplished by removing 4 things.
Remove Qualified Immunity so that individual officers can be held accountable and sued for their actions. That alone will put a stop to many cases of excess force by police.
Abolish police unions and FOP or at least limit their contracts to negotiating salary and nothing else so they cannot circle the wagons to protect bad actors .
Abolish civil forfeiture.

Abolish no knock warrants.

Just abolishing those 4 things would go a long way to curbing the problems with policing .

But no we dont need to nor should we defund or dismantle police.