Texas House passes bill that reduces penalties for Texans caught with small amounts of marijuana

[baboon]

Some of the stereotypes are funny. I know guys that make $60-$100k a year in different career fields from construction to IT. Some are business owners so I dont put them in a $$ catagory. They are far from the "Spicoli" persona. They all have their shit together, raise & provide for their families, they are fathers to their children. They come home & instead of popping a pill or a top on a beer they smoke some pot. If my job didn't test I'd probably be right there with them.

Heres a question for ya...
How many people you know that take proscription pills? Prescription pills are 10X worse than marijuana. Pills can kill you & shut down bodily organs... pot dont do that.


I'm pretty sure shes on a few pills

I agree that some folk can enjoy smoking a little weed & not act the fool. Same can me said about heroin. I dated a girl when I was 17 whose brother was a functional junkie. Look back @ the old west & see how many were addicted to laudanum.

I think if small amounts were legalized I try to see if it gave me relief of my back pain. Yes I am aware of various CBD products.

The whole thing is it really don't matter much until the federal government gives it the thumbs up for me!

 

[toddnjoyce]

You can't be seriously comparing having a few grams of weed to rape and murder.

Let's put a "few grams of weed" in perspective. USCBP alone siezes 4,330,475 lbs of marijuana annually. That's about 1,964,270,418 grams, or almost 2 billion grams annually, or enough to give every man, woman, and child in the US six (6) grams/year. You're telling me every single one of those 2B grams constitutes 100% of the illegal marijuana imports AND it's 100% victimless?

By that logic, we should keep certain types of guns illegal because having them is just as bad as being a murderer.

Current federal law, whether I agree with it or not, says so. I can choose to obey the law, or suffer the penalties if caught.

When does the rationalization stop? How about when there is an actual victim. Growing or having a little pot does not produce a victim.

You're telling me every single one of those 2B grams constitutes 100% of the illegal marijuana imports AND it's 100% victimless?

What DOES produce a victim is criminalizing it, imprisoning people for it, and inadvertently creating a black market for it that creates a high possibility of people being victimized.

So, decriminalizing marijuana eliminates the black market. Didn't work out that way in Colorado, according to the recreational marijuana industry.

As I said in my very first post, don't try to convince me.

 

[Sublime]

Sorry, but comparing drug use to real crimes is absurd. As long as a person doesn't harm another person or their property they should be left alone.

As for govt., wasting my tax dollars on enforcement, well they waste it on all kinds of crap so I do not see that as a valid argument.

You use drug use and not MJ use and that is a big jump from someone smoking a joint and someone shooting heroin. Your last sentence is the dopers utopia mantra.
The fact is drug users do harm others and steal and vandalize property all the time.

Does that apply to most MJ users? Probably not but the social and economic damage is still there. Now if MJ can help ypu with some type of chronic pain from a disease, I am in favor of ot but that is NOT 90% of the folks with Medical MJ licenses.


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[Maverick44]

Let's put a "few grams of weed" in perspective. USCBP alone siezes 4,330,475 lbs of marijuana annually. That's about 1,964,270,418 grams, or almost 2 billion grams annually, or enough to give every man, woman, and child in the US six (6) grams/year. You're telling me every single one of those 2B grams constitutes 100% of the illegal marijuana imports AND it's 100% victimless?

Most people in the US have tried marijuana at least once, and a not so insignificant percentage of the US smokes marijuana on a regular basis. 6 grams per year is nothing. 60 grams per year is nothing. One survey showed that about 84% of marijuana users use between 1-3 grams per DAY. Feel free to do the math on that.

As for it being victimless, any victims are a result of how WE are dealing with the issue. Your mindset is what's victimizing people, not the pot itself. A black market for marijuana has been created because of our laws. Those victims are a result of that black market. The smuggling, the violence, and multitude of other illegal activities are occurring BECAUSE that market exists. If it ceased to exist, those black markets, at least as far as marijuana is concerned would cease to exist or at least be cut back drastically. The same thing happened with the prohibition of alcohol. A black market was created and crime skyrocketed as a direct result.

The pot head sitting at home smoking a pot is not victimizing anyone except maybe a bag of chips.

Current federal law, whether I agree with it or not, says so. I can choose to obey the law, or suffer the penalties if caught.

We're not talking about Federal law, we're talking about your outlandish claims that somehow pot use is just as bad as rape and murder.

You're telling me every single one of those 2B grams constitutes 100% of the illegal marijuana imports AND it's 100% victimless?

I'm saying that pot use is not responsible for the vast majority of the crime related to the growing and selling of marijuana. The laws outlawing it are.

So, decriminalizing marijuana eliminates the black market. Didn't work out that way in Colorado, according to the recreational marijuana industry.

So weed is being grown in a place it is legal, and moved to a place that it is illegal? I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED I TELL YOU! WHY AREN'T THE LAWS WORKING?

"Even though there are more than 500 recreational marijuana dispensaries in the state, the black market is booming. It's being driven by criminal organizations that grow weed in Colorado and smuggle their crop into states where it is still illegal and can be sold for a much greater profit."

That right there says it all. Did you even read that article?

As I said in my very first post, don't try to convince me.

If you are not interested in discussion, then you should have kept your mouth shut and ignored this thread.

 

[popper]

Have to write my rep who voted against it, yea. Now if senate kills it, yea. Basically legalizes pot in Texas. Cops don't like it but won't do anything about pot heads now if ok'd.

 

[toddnjoyce]

If you are not interested in discussion, then you should have kept your mouth shut and ignored this thread.

Got any data to support your position?

 

[Maverick44]

Got any data to support your position?

Sure, got any to support yours?

 

[popper]

Every body does it - nope, just young and stupid and willy. I can introduce you to a lot of parents who's kids have ruined their lives on the stuff.

 

[Maverick44]

Every body does it - nope, just young and stupid and willy. I can introduce you to a lot of parents who's kids have ruined their lives on the stuff.

Just the young and stupid?

https://www.cannabisconsumer.org/up...nnabis_consumer_demographics_and_behavior.pdf

Demographics for consumers of cannabis
18-20 - 0.94%
21-35 - 40.79%
36-45 - 25.75%
46-55 - 16.17%
56-65 - 12.59%
Over 65 - 3.79%

So about 58.3% of users are 36 or older, which is not so young.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Sure, got any to support yours?

In addition to what I included above, here’s one of the more recent peer-reviewed studies behind legalization campaigns.

https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/deliver...4076008075123074122122079120081011027&EXT=pdf

Page 22 identifies the key differentiator of a successful legalization campaign; its support and mobilization of young voters (Under 29).

As for the 52% of Americans claim that likes to get bandied about, look at the methodology.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-con...-Marist Poll_Weed and The American Family.pdf

It’s 52% of those over-18. So, if the whole population is 327M, and the over 18 pop is only 78% of 327M, then you find 132M Americans have tried pot at least once. Of the total population, 132M is 40% of 327M. Oh yeah, that same study reports 22% of American adults use marijuana [~54,510,216 people], and 63% of this group say they use it regularly. That’s not a majority.


https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045218

From International Journal of Additions.

Correlation exists between use of illegal drugs and criminal activity.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/10826088109038858

Social Science Journal:

Demand for drugs is inelastic with respect to legalization.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/036233199390016O

 

[Vaquero]

I ain't gonna bet my guns on those statistics.

Major ninja

 

[Vaquero]

Besides.
It's still illegal.
Like driving without a seatbelt.

 

[vmax]

Sorry, but comparing drug use to real crimes is absurd......As long as a person doesn't harm another person or their property they should be left alone.

Invalid Point.

The doper will spiral down and end up on welfare, food stamps, go to the ER and not pay the damn bill because he doesn’t have insurance and all of this ends up causing harm in the way of increased taxes and cost to the people working and paying taxes.

Look at the type of people that came into Colorado after they legalized... non productive leeches.

About the only way a large part of the country could smoke all the dope they wanted and not harm everyone else is to go to a remote island and do it till they die of it. Good riddance

 

[Younggun]

Deja vu.


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[Maverick44]

In addition to what I included above, here’s one of the more recent peer-reviewed studies behind legalization campaigns.

https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/deliver...4076008075123074122122079120081011027&EXT=pdf

Page 22 identifies the key differentiator of a successful legalization campaign; its support and mobilization of young voters (Under 29).

And this has what to do with our discussion? You could have inferred that from the stats I just posted regarding that "young and stupid" comment.

As for the 52% of Americans claim that likes to get bandied about, look at the methodology.

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/Yahoo News/20170417_Summary Yahoo News-Marist Poll_Weed and The American Family.pdf

It’s 52% of those over-18. So, if the whole population is 327M, and the over 18 pop is only 78% of 327M, then you find 132M Americans have tried pot at least once. Of the total population, 132M is 40% of 327M. That’s not a majority.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045218

Your numbers are off, and don't even match the ones listed in the survey. The population of the US was not 327 Million in 2017, and you are choosing to simply ignore a sizable portion of the US (those under 18) while also using that number to make your point. I find that simply dishonest. Either you ignore all those under 18, or you include them. You cannot have it both ways, and you cannot assume that every single person under 18 has never tried marijuana at some point.

The survey from an actual institution that does this type of research regularly chose to completely ignore the population under 18 for a few very good reasons. Most surveys ignore those under 18 because they are very difficult to actually survey, and the fact that they are children makes it highly unlikely that they would be considered important to the survey. The life experiences of a 10 year old for example are generally not important to surveys such as this. Especially since it involves drug use.

From International Journal of Additions.

Correlation exists between use of illegal drugs and criminal activity.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.3109/10826088109038858

You gave me a link to an article I can't even read beyond it's abstract without paying for access. Did you just randomly search for shit on Google Scholar to try to prove your point?

First off, from the abstract there's a few issues with your argument.

"This study identifies the patterns of criminal activity among 1,544 members of a drug/alcohol treatment population. A sizable number of the members have a history of involvement in crime."

The fact that their entire population was involved in a drug/alcohol treatment program of some kind invalidates your argument. Of course people in a TREATMENT program are going to have a high likelihood of having fallen foul of the law. How about those who have never been to a drug treatment program? What is their likelihood that they will commit a crime?

Furthermore, how many of these people are using marijuana and marijuana alone? There's a HUGE difference between Marijuana, and something like Heroin, Cocaine, or Crystal Meth.

Social Science Journal:

Demand for drugs is inelastic with respect to legalization.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/036233199390016O

I'm curious as to who claimed that legalization would lead to less marijuana use. It twas not I.

Now for my data.

"Conclusions:These findings run counter to arguments suggesting the legalization of marijuana for medical purposes posesa danger to public health in terms of exposure to violent crime and property crimes."

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0092816&type=printable

One thing I'd like to address is this

Early studies compared the amount of crimes committed by juveniles whose urine tested positive for marijuana upon entering a detention center and those committed by individuals who tested negative for marijuana. Dembo and associates [15], [16], for instance, found that youths who tested positive for marijuana had a significantly higher number of referrals to juvenile court for non-drug felonies than those testing negative for marijuana use.

There is a major problem with the validity of those past studies. THC can show up in urine tests for up to a month after smoking marijuana. As such, you cannot say with any level of confidence that a person who tested positive for THC at the time of their arrest was actually under the influence of the drug during the time that they committed their crime. That is, unless there is compelling evidence to actually prove otherwise such as a confession or if they smell strongly of marijuana.

A lot of what people believe about marijuana today came from these old studies. We need to remember that these studies can be flawed. That goes for just about any study, not just these.

My whole point can be summed up right here.

Research has also shown that marijuana use is not related to violent crime when measured at the individual-level [20]. Once drug charges are controlled for, Pedersen and Skardhamar [21]reported that the relationship between marijuana and crime was not significantly different from zero.

At the individual level, that is the guy sitting at home smoking a blunt and molesting a bag of chips, the relationship between marijuana and crime was NOT SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM ZERO.

I said it once, and I'll say it again, if you take away the black market's control over marijuana, the crime associated with it will disappear.

In sum, these findings run counter to arguments suggesting the legalization of marijuana for medical purposes poses a danger to public health in terms of exposure to violent crime and property crimes. To be sure, medical marijuana laws were not found to have a crime exacerbating effect on any of the seven crime types. On the contrary, our findings indicated that MML precedes a reduction in homicide and assault. While it is important to remain cautious when interpreting these findings as evidence that MML reduces crime, these results do fall in line with recent evidence [29]and they conform to the longstanding notion that marijuana legalization may lead to a reduction in alcohol use due to individuals substituting marijuana for alcohol [see generally 29,30].

Invalid Point.

The doper will spiral down and end up on welfare, food stamps, go to the ER and not pay the damn bill because he doesn’t have insurance and all of this ends up causing harm in the way of increased taxes and cost to the people working and paying taxes.

Proof?

According to this, that's not the case.

https://www.cannabisconsumer.org/up...nnabis_consumer_demographics_and_behavior.pdf

84.28% of the people surveyed uses cannabis one or more times a day, with 18.71% of them having used it for 5-10 years, and 63.52% having used it for more than 10 years.

Their household incomes are as follows

Less than $25,000 - 20.54%
$26,000-$55,000 - 35.23%
$56,000-$75,000 - 16.86%
$76,000-$100,000 - 11.74%
$100,000-$150,000 - 11.36%
More than $150,000 - 4.36%

That's not too far off to what it is for the entire US.

US INCOME DISTRIBUTION

Less than $25,000 - 20.3%
$25,000-$50,000 - 20.5%
$50,000-$75,000 - 16.5%
$75,000-$100,000 - 12.5%
$100,000-$150,000 - 14.5%
More than $150,000 - 14.7%

https://www.statista.com/statistics/203183/percentage-distribution-of-household-income-in-the-us/

 

[MTA]

Do they have a fast way to test someone for weed after they are pulled over or after an accident?

 

[Maverick44]

Do they have a fast way to test someone for weed after they are pulled over or after an accident?

Fast? There's a saliva swab test that takes about 8 min to get results. There's a link at the bottom of this post that has more info about that test. If they believe you were under the influence during an accident or after being pulled over, they'll probably get a warrant to get a urine or blood sample from you (more likely for a serious accident than a simple traffic stop). They can also conduct a field sobriety test.

https://www.duiease.com/test-for-marijuana-california/

 

[vmax]

@Maverick44
Colorado’s ERs were full of people overdosing on pot laced foods , even kids who got into these things by accident. Most of these were from people without insurance so guess who got stuck paying for it?
There was also a huge deal in Colorado after it was discovered that people were using there EBT cards at ATMs inside pot shops to get cash and by pot with that money meant for food and utilities.
Keep telling me how it doesn’t effect other people...

 

[txinvestigator]

You guys know the bill died, right?

All I am going to say is that I know people who don't smoke only because it is illegal, people who would allow it to consume their lives if they indulged. People I care about.

 

[toddnjoyce]

You guys know the bill died, right?

All I am going to say is that I know people who don't smoke only because it is illegal, people who would allow it to consume their lives if they indulged. People I care about.

Yep.

All I am going to say is that I know people who don't smoke only because it is illegal, people who would allow it to consume their lives if they indulged. People I care about.

I’m directly related to someone who let marijuana consume his life for six years. He admits to this day that were it legalized he wouldn’t start using again.