The FBI has changed

[zincwarrior]

And sometimes, all it takes to make a 14 yr old into a BG is to shoot his dog.

Shoot his dog-he kills a marshall, then the rest of the family fortifies up. Yea, not caring.

Again to the original topic-marshalls were there FBI weren't there until the standoff.

Second point-that was decades ago. Whatever, people are being shot by the PoPo every day.

 

[easy rider]

To discount the FBI's involvement is like discounting the federal governments involvement.

 

[zincwarrior]

Except of course, facts matter and the OP was how do we say it...wrong.

Now if he had said the FBI is behind the whole Moon Landing Conspiracy, well he'd be 100% correct.

 

[BRD@66]

ZW, I'll bet you even buy from Troy Defense.

 

[zincwarrior]

All my purchases are made through "Commie Trader.com" If you act now, for every $100 purchase I get a Hillary Tshirt and autographed Nancy Pelosi color photo. YES!

I've almost finished my collection of "Cuba's Heroes of the Revolution" hummel collection. I just need to "Castro in hospital gown" to complete the set.

 

[Renegade]

In 1992, they entrapped Randy Weaver into selling 2 shotguns to undercover agents that were 1/4 inch too short, then sent him a letter with a wrong court appearance date on purpose, so he would miss his appearance.
They then came on his land in gillie suits and camo, shot his dog, killed his 14 year old son, shot his wife in the head while she was holding her baby, shot Randy in the back as he was going to see his sons body, and shot his best friend, all because he visited a white supremacy group and they wanted him to be a mole.

Jesus how can you have so much wrong on a well-known pubic event.

 

[vmax]

.... Moral of the story don't be a racist dickhole?

is that illegal? should they kill your son and wife over that?

 

[vmax]

Shoot his dog-he kills a marshall, then the rest of the family fortifies up. Yea, not caring.

Again to the original topic-marshalls were there FBI weren't there until the standoff.

Second point-that was decades ago. Whatever, people are being shot by the PoPo every day.

IF you mean that Weaver's son killed a marshal, get your freaking facts right!
Weaver's son never killed anyone

 

[zincwarrior]

is that illegal? should they kill your son and wife over that?

It should not be illegal nor should people be shot over that. Fortunately neither of those occurred in this instance.

Having said that its an excellent indicator you (the racist piece of shit not you vmax) are a complete waste of skin and I will give everyone in the world the benefit of the doubt over you because you're as stupid as you are unworthy of being allowed to breed. Now let me tell you all how I really feel...

IF you mean that Weaver's son killed a marshal, get your freaking facts right!
Weaver's son never killed anyone

IF you mean that Weaver's son killed a marshal, get your freaking facts right!
Weaver's son never killed anyone

He or Harris did, unless you're proposing the Marshall suddenly decided to commit suicide in a firefight.

After long-term surveillance, the Deputy Director of the Special Operations Group of the Marshals Service recommended against a tactical assault on the Weaver residence. He recommended that the indictment be dismissed and then refiled later under seal, so that Weaver would be unaware of the new indictment, in hope of causing him to drop his guard. An undercover operation could then be executed to arrest Weaver without incident. His recommendation was rejected.
On August 21, 1992, several well-armed U.S. Marshals went to the Weaver property to clandestinely survey it; they hoped to update their information about the property, since it had last been surveyed in May 1992. The group had strict orders that they were to avoid all contact with the Weaver family. According to a Department of Justice report on the incident,[SUP][9][/SUP] the marshals were detected by the Weavers' dogs and began to retreat.[SUP][10][/SUP] Randy Weaver's 14-year-old son Sammy and his house guest, 24-year-old family friend Kevin Harris,[SUP][5][/SUP] left the house to investigate, both carrying firearms. The DOJ report corroborates this with a statement dictated by Randy Weaver to his daughter, in which he says that "Approximately 11:30 Friday morning....the dogs started barking like they always do when strangers walk up the driveway. Kevin, and Sam ran out to the rock with their weapons." Eventually the Marshals stopped retreating and took up defensive positions in the woods.
The sequence of events during the ensuing shootout is disputed, with Weaver and Harris saying that the camouflaged marshals fired first[SUP][5][/SUP] and did not identify themselves. The marshals' version of events is when they were rising to identify themselves, they were fired on first by Sammy and Harris.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][10][/SUP] In another version of events, the Weavers' dog, Striker, was shot as he exposed a hiding Bill Degan, Sammy Weaver shot Bill Degan in retaliation, then a running Sammy was shot in the back by a dying Bill Degan and/or other federal agents.[SUP][11][/SUP] Both died. After this, the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) was called in to assist with the situation. Much controversy was later generated by the fact that, after the first day's events, the FBI had changed its usual rules of engagement; specifically, "deadly force can and should be used against any armed adult male if the shot could be taken without a child being injured."[SUP][12][/SUP] No request for surrender or announcement of officials' presence would be needed to shoot.[SUP][10][/SUP][SUP][11][/SUP]

 

[vmax]

Weavers son and wife were killed
And it all started because of the white supremacist
Group he visited

And in the end the court dropped all charges except for the failure to appear
They also paid 3.1 million to the family
And they also paid Keven Harris several hundred thousand dollars
And Harris was not charged with murder of the Marshall and it was ruled self defense
Why would they do that ?

 

[Renegade]

And in the end the court dropped all charges except for the failure to appear
They also paid 3.1 million to the family
And they also paid Keven Harris several hundred thousand dollars
And Harris was not charged with murder of the Marshall and it was ruled self defense
Why would they do that ?

Dude you are living in a Reality Distortion Field. 99% of everything you post is flat out wrong and easily fact checked.

 

[seeker_two]

The FBI is different. Back then, they were tough enough to carry and shoot 10mm S&W's. Today, they have to switch back to 9mm because .40S&W hurts their delicate accountant hands......

 

[vmax]

Dude you are living in a Reality Distortion Field. 99% of everything you post is flat out wrong and easily fact checked.

lets look at what I said one by one and you can show us all that I am wrong.

1. Weaver and his daughters were awarded 3.1 million
here is a story from 2012 confirming that
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2012/08/ruby_ridge_20_years_later_rand.html
here is one from the LA Times confirming that
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-08-16/news/mn-35756_1_ruby-ridge
Another aricle confirming the lawsuit by the family and the settlement
https://www.firearmsandliberty.com/ruby2.html

2. Kevin Harris was acquitted on all charges and was paid a settlement
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-08-16/news/mn-35756_1_ruby-ridge
An article in 2010 stating that Harris was acquitted and accepted a settlement of $380k

Another LA times article stating that Weaver and Harris were both aquitted
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-07-09/news/mn-11558_1_lesser-charges
Another AP story confirming all murder charges against Weaver and Harris were dropped

 

[vmax]

 

[vmax]

Official DOJ report in PDF form
read down about the 2nd paragraph where Weaver and Harris were acquitted

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...NGgDhoYpQU1zHMeBg&sig2=8L_07-QyJQwib7H6lroEIQ

 

[vmax]

University of MO Law School chronological report on Ruby Ridge
This is short and to the point so you guys and understand it

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/weaver/weaverchronology.html

 

[Renegade]

lets look at what I said one by one and you can show us all that I am wrong.

1. Weaver and his daughters were awarded 3.1 million
here is a story from 2012 confirming that
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2012/08/ruby_ridge_20_years_later_rand.html
here is one from the LA Times confirming that
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-08-16/news/mn-35756_1_ruby-ridge
Another aricle confirming the lawsuit by the family and the settlement
https://www.firearmsandliberty.com/ruby2.html

2. Kevin Harris was acquitted on all charges and was paid a settlement
http://articles.latimes.com/1995-08-16/news/mn-35756_1_ruby-ridge
An article in 2010 stating that Harris was acquitted and accepted a settlement of $380k

Another LA times article stating that Weaver and Harris were both aquitted
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-07-09/news/mn-11558_1_lesser-charges
Another AP story confirming all murder charges against Weaver and Harris were dropped

Lets look at what you actually wrote, which is why I quoted knowing you would distort it.


And in the end the court dropped all charges except for the failure to appear

No they didn't. In fact they added more charges such as murder/manslaughter.

They also paid 3.1 million to the family
And they also paid Keven Harris several hundred thousand dollars

This is close enough to correct, lawsuit settled out of court.


And Harris was not charged with murder of the Marshall and it was ruled self defense

Wrong AGAIN. He was charged, not once but twice. He was not ruled self-defense, he went to trial and was acquitted. The second charge was dismissed under 5th amendment double jeopardy.

Add in all the incorrect nonsense from your first post and it is a giant WTF...

 

[vmax]

This is another DOJ internal review report listing the events in chronological order
it also confirms that all charges were dropped except for the failure to appear and Weaver only did a couple of months on those with time served.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/weaver/dojrubychrono.htm

 

[vmax]

Lets look at what you actually wrote, which is why I quoted knowing you would distort it.


And in the end the court dropped all charges except for the failure to appear

No they didn't. In fact they added more charges such as murder/manslaughter.

They also paid 3.1 million to the family
And they also paid Keven Harris several hundred thousand dollars

This is close enough to correct, lawsuit settled out of court.


And Harris was not charged with murder of the Marshall and it was ruled self defense

Wrong AGAIN. He was charged, not once but twice. He was not ruled self-defense, he went to trial and was acquitted. The second charge was dismissed under 5th amendment double jeopardy.

Add in all the incorrect nonsense from your first post and it is a giant WTF...

"And in the end" did you read over that part?
at the end of the whole thing, Weaver only served time for the failure to appear charges all of the other BS charges that they tried to toss on failed.
Harris never spent a day in jail for killing the marshall

out of all of the things the government had , it was all proven wrong and they paid Weaver and Harris millions
did the government pay because they were innocent?

 

[Phoneguy]

The FBI is different. Back then, they were tough enough to carry and shoot 10mm S&W's. Today, they have to switch back to 9mm because .40S&W hurts their delicate accountant hands......

HRT, as well as each Divisional SWAT, carries the 1911. Field Agents can and do carry the Glock in .45 Auto.