This is why i Support the NRA

[A1Oni]

No, they don't. But they're the only folks who support the, for lack of a better word, traditional target sports. USA Shooting will never take up the mantle of American bullseye, for example. If the NRA goes under without spinning off an organization that supports those things, many shooting sports (that are, I admit, stereotypes of what non-shooters think shooting sports are) would die. I'd hate to see them go.

That's one of the most irritating things to me because it's not true across multiple disciplines. Everybody reinvents the wheel over and over again. Sure, there's always a set of disciplines that share some infrastructure but it's never a majority.

I once read (and I believe it) that shooting is the second most popular participatory sport in the USA after running. The reason shooting isn't thought of that way by the general public is that it's so incredibly varied, fractured, and decentralized. There are people passionately devoted to formal shooting sports that exist at only one club. There are so many different minor disciplines that no one of them achieves the critical mass necessary to be visible to the general public. That means that the uneducated public thinks of shooting as something related to crime, exclusively, and are often shocked when it's reported as part of sports coverage. And that only happens every 4 years at the Olympics.

There was a time when the NRA national championships in particular disciplines actually made the sports pages nationwide. Only centralization under NRA sanction made that possible.

But that hasn't been true for decades so perhaps nothing would be lost if the competitions administration functions of the NRA went away. I would still grieve for the loss of what was, once, a generally acknowledged place where good shooters gather, a place recognized not just by the participants but by the public at large.

Of course, if that happened it might open other opportunities. I actually believe that I can (actually, have) designed a shooting sport for both rifle and pistol that could combine all the skills required in NRA traditional rifle and pistol sport as well as the International disciplines and do it in a fun, easy-to-administer way. I've never bothered to so much as make up a single prototype target because I know that even if the sport I designed caught on, that standard for "catching on" in the shooting world is so low that it would most likely become just another minor oddity in the sport as a whole.

The NRA made it possible, 70 years ago, for almost all formal shooting competitions to be administered by a single entity that could actually make those sports visible to the public. Then that began to fade, they gave up administering the International sports (major mistake, imo), and things have gone downhill from there.

Something of real value was lost.

when I think shooting sport I think more IDPA/IPSC/2 Gun and less High Power or 25m Pistol. with things like high power or some of the older style of target sports still requires great skill but I feel like as with most things the zeitgeist of shooting sports has been shifting since the mid 80s and I think its better that there are multiple competing shooting orgs because it allows for more variety.

 

[leVieux]

No, they don't. But they're the only folks who support the, for lack of a better word, traditional target sports. USA Shooting will never take up the mantle of American bullseye, for example. If the NRA goes under without spinning off an organization that supports those things, many shooting sports (that are, I admit, stereotypes of what non-shooters think shooting sports are) would die. I'd hate to see them go.

That's one of the most irritating things to me because it's not true across multiple disciplines. Everybody reinvents the wheel over and over again. Sure, there's always a set of disciplines that share some infrastructure but it's never a majority.

I once read (and I believe it) that shooting is the second most popular participatory sport in the USA after running. The reason shooting isn't thought of that way by the general public is that it's so incredibly varied, fractured, and decentralized. There are people passionately devoted to formal shooting sports that exist at only one club. There are so many different minor disciplines that no one of them achieves the critical mass necessary to be visible to the general public. That means that the uneducated public thinks of shooting as something related to crime, exclusively, and are often shocked when it's reported as part of sports coverage. And that only happens every 4 years at the Olympics.

There was a time when the NRA national championships in particular disciplines actually made the sports pages nationwide. Only centralization under NRA sanction made that possible.

But that hasn't been true for decades so perhaps nothing would be lost if the competitions administration functions of the NRA went away. I would still grieve for the loss of what was, once, a generally acknowledged place where good shooters gather, a place recognized not just by the participants but by the public at large.

Of course, if that happened it might open other opportunities. I actually believe that I can (actually, have) designed a shooting sport for both rifle and pistol that could combine all the skills required in NRA traditional rifle and pistol sport as well as the International disciplines and do it in a fun, easy-to-administer way. I've never bothered to so much as make up a single prototype target because I know that even if the sport I designed caught on, that standard for "catching on" in the shooting world is so low that it would most likely become just another minor oddity in the sport as a whole.

The NRA made it possible, 70 years ago, for almost all formal shooting competitions to be administered by a single entity that could actually make those sports visible to the public. Then that began to fade, they gave up administering the International sports (major mistake, imo), and things have gone downhill from there.

Something of real value was lost.

<>

Ben, we’d all support the NRA if without laPierre.

By excesses & petulance, ”Little Wayne” has made himself the PROBLEM.

BUT, via the fortresslike “Nominating Committee”, he keeps control.

Just as with Hitler, something initially offered “for the good of us all” has been turned into a mini-POLICE STATE with Wayne as sole dictator. It is no longer a voluntary organization, except as to membership & donations.

So, we won’t give a dime untiL Wayne is GONE. No more $7,000 suits paid by contributions for Wayne to strut around it !

Many of have moved to the GOA, which has its own troubled history & nepotism situation.

leVieux

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[benenglish]

via the fortresslike “Nominating Committee”, he keeps control.

That mechanism is a travesty.

So, we won’t give a dime untiL Wayne is GONE.

Same here. I let my Golden Eagle membership lapse quite a while back.

I don't regret becoming a Golden Eagle but I realized quite some time ago that I was just throwing good money after bad.

 

[Byrd666]

Do you think it's actually possible that the USCCA or anyone else could someday achieve the status and legal acceptance of the NRA? For example, unless you have an LE or private security cert, to become an LTC instructor in Texas, you must have previously gotten a training cert from the NRA. It's my impression that most instructors got their LTC cert after getting an NRA Basic Pistol cert. (If I'm wrong, I hope somebody will correct me. Also, I know there's an additional exception for people with other certs who teach regularly but I've never known how that works and it's my impression that it's rare.)

Will anyone ever supplant the NRA in roles like that? Is that even politically possible?

Those are sincere questions. My initial impression is that the answer to both is "no" but I'm interested in hearing other perspectives.

Yes, I do believe that an organization like USCCA can, and eventually will, attain the same legal acceptance as the NRA. And please don't take the previous statements I've made using them as an endorsement. They are just the largest, that I know of, direct competitor to the NRA in terms of education and training.

As far as certifications and accreditations, go, all of mine are stamped with an NRA seal. But, I have read a few times where a certificate from USCCA will work in lieu of the NRA one. Please don't quote me, but I think was for an RSO position, or similar. And I'll admit, some of the programs that USCCA have look to be quite educational and go to different depths than the NRA counterparts. Enough so, that if, my funds and time were available, I would have happily taken the class(es) and gotten the credentials.

As far as the politics go, we've all seen the incremental loss of standing that the NRA holds. It's not near the same boogeyman that it once was. Even just a short decade ago. The NRA had a following and membership number that used to strike fear into almost all politicians in the Sewer. However, due to gross mismanagement, back room deals that restricted 2A Rights, and infighting among the board, and then those facts of that being made known to the public, the fear of the NRA has abated dramatically. Not to mention the fact, that I can't ever recall hearing about the NRA actually filing suit on behalf of its members to preserve and promote our Constitutionally protected Rights. The latest farce in North Dakota not withstanding. We are now relying on organizations like the F.P.C., G.O.A., S.A.F, and others to do what the NRA was supposed to be doing to begin with.

So yes, I absolutely believe another organization, or group, willl be holding and protecting the candle of 2A protection and promotion after the NRA falls off into the abyss.


And please don't think that I want the NRA to fail, because I don't. But, until all the upper management is gotten rid of, and replaced with people that are there for the organization and the members of, and not just a fat paycheck, well...

 

[Axxe55]

Yes, I do believe that an organization like USCCA can, and eventually will, attain the same legal acceptance of the NRA. And please don't take the previous statements I've made using them as an endorsement. They are just the largest, that I know of, direct competitor to the NRA in terms of education and training.

As far as certifications and accreditations, go, all of mine are stamped with an NRA seal. But, I have read a few times where a certificate from USCCA will work in lieu of the NRA one. Please don't quote me, but I think was for an RSO position, or similar. And I'll admit, some of the programs that USCCA have look to be quite educational and go to different depths than the NRA counterparts. Enough so, that if, my funds and time were available, I would have happily taken the class(es) and gotten the credentials.

As far as the politics go, we've all seen the incremental loss of standing that the NRA holds. It's not near the same boogeyman that it once once. Even just a short decade ago. The NRA had a following and membership number that used to strike fear into almost all politicians in the Sewer. However, due to gross mismanagement, back room deals that restricted 2A Rights, and infighting among the board, and then those facts of that being made known to the public, the fear of the NRA has abated dramatically. Not to mention the fact, that I can't ever recall hearing about the NRA actually filing suit on behalf of its members to preserve and promote our Constitutionally protected Rights. The latest farce in North Dakota not withstanding. We are now relying on organizations like the F.P.C., G.O.A., S.A.F, and others to do what the NRA was supposed to be doing to begin with.

So yes, I absolutely believe another organization, or group, willl be holding and protecting the candle of 2A protection and promotion after the NRA falls off into the abyss.


And please don't think that. I want the NRA to fail, because I don't. But, until all the upper management is gotten rid of, and replaced with people that are there for the organization and the members of, and not just a fat paycheck, well...

I THINK THERE WILL HAVE TO BE A HUGE CHANGE IN THE NRA'S LEADERSHIP TO LURE FORMER MEMBERS BACKINCLUDING MYSELF AND MY FAMILY

 

[leVieux]

Yes, I do believe that an organization like USCCA can, and eventually will, attain the same legal acceptance as the NRA. And please don't take the previous statements I've made using them as an endorsement. They are just the largest, that I know of, direct competitor to the NRA in terms of education and training.

As far as certifications and accreditations, go, all of mine are stamped with an NRA seal. But, I have read a few times where a certificate from USCCA will work in lieu of the NRA one. Please don't quote me, but I think was for an RSO position, or similar. And I'll admit, some of the programs that USCCA have look to be quite educational and go to different depths than the NRA counterparts. Enough so, that if, my funds and time were available, I would have happily taken the class(es) and gotten the credentials.

As far as the politics go, we've all seen the incremental loss of standing that the NRA holds. It's not near the same boogeyman that it once was. Even just a short decade ago. The NRA had a following and membership number that used to strike fear into almost all politicians in the Sewer. However, due to gross mismanagement, back room deals that restricted 2A Rights, and infighting among the board, and then those facts of that being made known to the public, the fear of the NRA has abated dramatically. Not to mention the fact, that I can't ever recall hearing about the NRA actually filing suit on behalf of its members to preserve and promote our Constitutionally protected Rights. The latest farce in North Dakota not withstanding. We are now relying on organizations like the F.P.C., G.O.A., S.A.F, and others to do what the NRA was supposed to be doing to begin with.

So yes, I absolutely believe another organization, or group, willl be holding and protecting the candle of 2A protection and promotion after the NRA falls off into the abyss.


And please don't think that I want the NRA to fail, because I don't. But, until all the upper management is gotten rid of, and replaced with people that are there for the organization and the members of, and not just a fat paycheck, well...

<>

”
And please don't think that I want the NRA to fail, because I don't. But, until all the upper management is gotten rid of, and replaced with people that are there for the organization and the members of, and not just a fat paycheck, well... “

EXAACKERLY !

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[leVieux]

The replacement of WLP would not solve the problem of the nra any more than the replacement of biden alone would solve the Federal Government. Both have surrounded themselves with idiots.

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Yes!

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[cbp210]

The NRA may just as well count their blessings and close shop.

We are hoping that does not happen as every major media outlets and every leftist groups like Everytown will go on mass celebrations declaring victory and next thing start a large money campaign now they see they toppled a giant.

 

[cbp210]

<>

”
And please don't think that I want the NRA to fail, because I don't. But, until all the upper management is gotten rid of, and replaced with people that are there for the organization and the members of, and not just a fat paycheck, well... “

EXAACKERLY !

<>

That is the biggest consensus of even the hardcore members. Many want at least most of them to retire and move on.

 

[Axxe55]

<>

Yes!

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BECAUSE THE INHERENT PROBLEMS ARE MUCH DEEPERTHAN JUST ONE PERSON BUT YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE! THAN JUST ONE PERSON!

 

[TheDan]

unless you have an LE or private security cert, to become an LTC instructor in Texas, you must have previously gotten a training cert from the NRA. It's my impression that most instructors got their LTC cert after getting an NRA Basic Pistol cert.

This is regulatory capture. Sounds like an example of the NRA serving itself (at the expense of gun owners).

 

[1911'S 4 Me]

NRA has become the same level of sewer as D.C. (district of china).

 

[benenglish]

This is regulatory capture. Sounds like an example of the NRA serving itself (at the expense of gun owners).

That was kind of my point. Despite the sleaziness of it, once regulatory capture is accomplished, it's awfully hard to unwind. I fear that if the NRA gets kicked out of certain legal niches they've secured for themselves, no one else will be able to get in. That would be a net negative, I think.

 

[leVieux]

That was kind of my point. Despite the sleaziness of it, once regulatory capture is accomplished, it's awfully hard to unwind. I fear that if the NRA gets kicked out of certain legal niches they've secured for themselves, no one else will be able to get in. That would be a net negative, I think.

<>

I wouldn’t put it past Wayne to try to blackmail his own prior supporters.

Sad !

<>

 

[DougC]

The National Rifle Association has received yet another judicial slap-down. Lead counsel Bill Brewer, along with attorneys for Wayne LaPierre, Secretary John Frazer, former Treasurer Woody Phillips, and former executive Josh Powell filed yet another raft of petitions calling for the suit to be dismissed or seriously throttled. In an order issued on June 8, the judge in the case rejected virtually all of these motions and petitions, most of which had already been previously rejected by the court.

Above is the lead paragraph of an AmmoLand Shooting Sports blog on the NRA by Jeff Knox, a second-generation political activist and director of The Firearms Coalition. His father Neal Knox led many of the early gun rights battles for your right to keep and bear arms. The blog is very lengthy as it provides a history up to current court battles of what's being going on inside the NRA. Not a pretty picture. The author points a number of failings of the Board of Directors to exercise their fiduciary duties to protect the organization and the money. Worthwhile reading for those curious about why all the comments critical of NRA on this forum.

Deserved or not. What's your take on the comments made in this blog article?

 

[leVieux]

The National Rifle Association has received yet another judicial slap-down. Lead counsel Bill Brewer, along with attorneys for Wayne LaPierre, Secretary John Frazer, former Treasurer Woody Phillips, and former executive Josh Powell filed yet another raft of petitions calling for the suit to be dismissed or seriously throttled. In an order issued on June 8, the judge in the case rejected virtually all of these motions and petitions, most of which had already been previously rejected by the court.

Above is the lead paragraph of an AmmoLand Shooting Sports blog on the NRA by Jeff Knox, a second-generation political activist and director of The Firearms Coalition. His father Neal Knox led many of the early gun rights battles for your right to keep and bear arms. The blog is very lengthy as it provides a history up to current court battles of what's being going on inside the NRA. Not a pretty picture. The author points a number of failings of the Board of Directors to exercise their fiduciary duties to protect the organization and the money. Worthwhile reading for those curious about why all the comments critical of NRA on this forum.

Deserved or not. What's your take on the comments made in this blog article?

<>

Doug,

I supported Neal Knox,

The NRA’s post-Knox formation of the “Nominating Committee” FORTRESS gave LaPierre total & permanent control.

LaPierre is a stain on the NRA, the 2A Rights Community, and on the entire USA.

One thing we have in common with the NY AG is that we all want LaPierre GONE, preferably to a PRISON.

In an unintentional way, this suit, and anticipated following criminal prosecutions, may actually help our side.

What a mess,

And, the late Neal Knox is already totally vindicated.

The damages done by the petulant LaPierre will take a half-century to correct, if ever.

We and our Republic need a healthy, functioning NRA.

leVieux

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[DoubleDuty]

<>

Doug,

I supported Neal Knox,

The NRA’s post-Knox formation of the “Nominating Committee” FORTRESS gave LaPierre total & permanent control.

LaPierre is a stain on the NRA, the 2A Rights Community, and on the entire USA.

One thing we have in common with the NY AG is that we all want LaPierre GONE, preferably to a PRISON.

In an unintentional way, this suit, and anticipated following criminal prosecutions, may actually help our side.

What a mess,

And, the late Neal Knox is already totally vindicated.

The damages done by the petulant LaPierre will take a half-century to correct, if ever.

We and our Republic need a healthy, functioning NRA.

leVieux

<>

Well Wayne and the rest of the crooks allowed Ackerman McQueen to loot the coffers. Several good books on the subject

 

[DoubleDuty]

The National Rifle Association has received yet another judicial slap-down. Lead counsel Bill Brewer, along with attorneys for Wayne LaPierre, Secretary John Frazer, former Treasurer Woody Phillips, and former executive Josh Powell filed yet another raft of petitions calling for the suit to be dismissed or seriously throttled. In an order issued on June 8, the judge in the case rejected virtually all of these motions and petitions, most of which had already been previously rejected by the court.

Above is the lead paragraph of an AmmoLand Shooting Sports blog on the NRA by Jeff Knox, a second-generation political activist and director of The Firearms Coalition. His father Neal Knox led many of the early gun rights battles for your right to keep and bear arms. The blog is very lengthy as it provides a history up to current court battles of what's being going on inside the NRA. Not a pretty picture. The author points a number of failings of the Board of Directors to exercise their fiduciary duties to protect the organization and the money. Worthwhile reading for those curious about why all the comments critical of NRA on this forum.

Deserved or not. What's your take on the comments made in this blog article?

It's deserved unfortunately.

 

[leVieux]

The nra has no chance of making any changes. Will never see a cent of support from me again.

<>

While sharing your sentiment here, I hope that the current legal entangulations will result in prosecution of LaPierre et al, and eventual eimination of the dastardly “Nominating Committee”.

In recent decades, the “democratic” management of the NRA has been a sham, and voting by members is useless. In fact, “voting” gives them an undeserved sheen of legitimacy, which they certainly do not deserve.

Yet, unlike the AMA, the NRA has very important modern utility; so we must support it once LaPierre & accessories are separated.

The lesson for us, and for posterity, is the “old saw” of “Power corrupts; and, absolute power corrupts absolutely!”

The “Nominating Committee” was severe and predictable response to the threats of the “Knox Revolt”. It should have been recognized as such AT THE TIME, and derailed then.

leVieux

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[DougC]

Serious Question: Are Any of You Getting a Return on This Investment? asks Washington Gun Law channel​

Washington Gun Law President, William Kirk, responds to a ton of comments [he] got about another video which discussed the NRA's efforts to obtain injunctive relief for its members from ATF's Pistol Brace Rule. This triggered many of you to leave less than flattering comments about America's largest Second Amendment organization, which is why we want to ask you "are you getting a return on your investment with the NRA?" So help educate [him] as to what you think of this once powerful organization that has seemingly lost its way and arm yourself with education today.

I watched the video and he does good job of not telling you what to think but all the stuff to think about. I have been a member of NRA for many years along with Texas State Rifle Assoc. In recent years I joined GOA, 2A Foundation, Firearms Policy Coalition and others. All to add to their membership numbers. When 2A groups lobby politicians numbers matter.

Here is a follow-up video from Washington Gun Law channel discussing the comments he received on the above video. In that video [he] asked a very simple question, "do any of you believe that the NRA is worth investing in any more?" Well the viewers have spoken and there has been a tremendous level of consistency in the answers provided. Betcha can guess what they wrote.




For the record I am and have been long-time annual member. As I have written elsewhere on this forum politicians respond to numbers from special interest groups of all type. Money and members (voters). So the NRA along with several other 2A advocate groups get my annual membership dues and that's all. At the end of the video comments are discussed that a good thing is that NRA is a 'sponge' taking most of the hits from anti-gun groups sparing the others who do better in court.