TLC question

[General Zod]

Well shit I bow down to your kryptonian power. Im more of an old school cursive guy.

It is a bold new day.

 

[jimbo]

Well shit I bow down to your kryptonian power. Im more of an old school cursive guy.

I think it may be a tie. Both of you are intense conversationalists.

 

[TreyG-20]

Try dotting the i in Rick, it can be done

Can't stop mid stream. It stings!

 

[alternative]

The general seems to think that there is a law requiring ID in possession for passengers and that they must oblige the cop by showing it on demand. The Trey is of course correct.

 

[General Zod]

The general seems to think that there is a law requiring ID in possession for passengers and that they must oblige the cop by showing it on demand. The Trey is of course correct.

The General lives in the real world where what a cop thinks is the law is probably what you should go with on the roadside except in fairly egregious circumstances.

Texas law says if you are being "legally detained" you must show ID...so where is the line between "present while the car you are riding in is pulled over" and "legally detained'? Seems like as soon as the officer decides you're worthy of his attention, you're likely to be temporarily "legally detained".

I've been asked for ID a couple of times as a passenger. One time was when a bored cop decided he couldn't tell if I was wearing a seatbelt - so he pulled my wife over because he wanted to give me, as her passenger, a ticket. Was I not required to show my ID that day?

 

[jmohme]

Why would a passenger at a traffic stop provide any info? Did you guys just hold up a convenience store? It is amazing how many people are willing to give up their constitutional rights.

I guess that would be the right to remain silent?

 

[jmohme]

The General lives in the real world where what a cop thinks is the law is probably what you should go with on the roadside except in fairly egregious circumstances.

Texas law says if you are being "legally detained" you must show ID...so where is the line between "present while the car you are riding in is pulled over" and "legally detained'? Seems like as soon as the officer decides you're worthy of his attention, you're likely to be temporarily "legally detained".

I've been asked for ID a couple of times as a passenger. One time was when a bored cop decided he couldn't tell if I was wearing a seatbelt - so he pulled my wife over because he wanted to give me, as her passenger, a ticket. Was I not required to show my ID that day?

Not to derail this thread, but you reminded me of a funny story. A truck driver know got pulled over. He got out of the truck and met the cop at the back of his trailer.
After being informed that he should have stayed in the truck, the officer asked if he had been wearing a seat belt. The driver replied, "Since I am already out of the truck, I guess you'll never know".
And yes, he got more than one ticket that day.

 

[General Zod]

Not to derail this thread, but you reminded me of a funny story. A truck driver know got pulled over. He got out of the truck and met the cop at the back of his trailer.
After being informed that he should have stayed in the truck, the officer asked if he had been wearing a seat belt. The driver replied, "Since I am already out of the truck, I guess you'll never know".
And yes, he got more than one ticket that day.

I had to prove to the cop that if I rested my arm on the windowsill of my wife's Ranger as I'd had it when he saw me, the seat belt wrapped around my shoulder in a way that it wasn't easily visible from outside the truck. Then he lectured me on having the shoulder belt keeper "too low", but didn't have an answer when I asked why he wanted me to have it high enough for the belt to lay across my throat. He was pissed off he didn't get to write a ticket.


Goes to show there's nothing worse than a bored cop.

 

[DoubleDuty]

”Don’t lie to cops.”
”Don’t surprise cops.”

While working at TxDPS I had the chance to ride-along.
As an independent observer, during traffic stops, LTC holders tended to receive substantially more leeway when immediately disclosing / giving LTC with their license, and being polite. (as in no ticket, just a warnin,for picadelos for driving offenses short of DUI.)

My 2 cents.

I have received great treatment when stopped and presenting my LTC and DL, but I am driving. As a passenger I'm not getting involved unless LEO asks me for ID. And I'm I am not giving up any of my Constitutional rights. No sense in escalating when it isn't necessary.

 

[jmohme]

I got pulled over on my way home one moonless night. The officer said he could see in the dark and that I wasnt wearing my seat belt, so I was driving a 91 Ford and opened the door, the shoulder strap rolled forward. Closed it and it rolled back into position. I as going to ask if he also had x ray vision and could see the lap belt, but I bit my tounge.

He also asked me if I had been drinking. I said, yes, about 12 years ago.
Like Zod said, I guess he was bored.

 

[Eastexasrick]

Got pulled over by a young rube bumpkin cop on Hwy 380, recently. He asked why I was not wearing my seat belt. I smiled and said I am. I opened the door, and there it was, a seat belt. 73 F250 there is no shoulder strap. He said he had never seen that before. I handed him the insurance, DL, and CHL and said this truck is older than you, he agreed. He said "well you were speeding". After checking out the truck he let me roll with no ticket.

 

[alternative]

The General lives in the real world where what a cop thinks is the law is probably what you should go with on the roadside except in fairly egregious circumstances.

Texas law says if you are being "legally detained" you must show ID...so where is the line between "present while the car you are riding in is pulled over" and "legally detained'? Seems like as soon as the officer decides you're worthy of his attention, you're likely to be temporarily "legally detained".

I've been asked for ID a couple of times as a passenger. One time was when a bored cop decided he couldn't tell if I was wearing a seatbelt - so he pulled my wife over because he wanted to give me, as her passenger, a ticket. Was I not required to show my ID that day?

If you are "legally" detained you must show ID. Legally detained is the key.There is no requirement for a passenger in a car to have an ID card of any manner (unless carrying under LTC) although that person might voluntarily give his/her/its name. To answer the ops question though, the passenger in a stopped car does not have to volunteer the info that he/she/it is a LTC holder and is carrying. I don't know if permitless carry requires having an ID card on your possession and would welcome a response from someone more knowledgeable.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Section 411.205 of the Texas Government Code
REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. …

So only if a peace officer demands identification...

Yep. You and I know what ‘demand’ means. For the lay person, if an LEO is talking to you and asks “Do you have any ID?”, the correct answer is “Am I being detained?”

If yes, then that’s a demand for ID. If no then no response is required, but lying in your response is it’s own crime.

Having said all that, back in 2017 I think it was, the lege repealed the penalty for failing to display the LTC on demand, so it’s a tiger without a tooth.

We’re 51 posts into the current iteration of the discussion this time around and it’s time for me to remind everyone

 

[General Zod]

If you are "legally" detained you must show ID. Legally detained is the key.There is no requirement for a passenger in a car to have an ID card of any manner (unless carrying under LTC) although that person might voluntarily give his/her/its name. To answer the ops question though, the passenger in a stopped car does not have to volunteer the info that he/she/it is a LTC holder and is carrying. I don't know if permitless carry requires having an ID card on your possession and would welcome a response from someone more knowledgeable.

And if the LEO utters that phrase so beloved by the DPD: "Do you have any weapons in the car?" then you'd probably better volunteer the info. And at that point he'll probably request your ID.

And we're back where we started.

 

[easy rider]

All I know is, the only argument I won on the side of the road was when the cop had mistaken issue date for expiration date on my insurance. For any other I take it to court to argue in my defense. I don't expect to win an argument with a cop when pulled over, therefore I just be courteous and see how it goes from there.

 

[Seabee radm]

When you are pulled over for a traffic stop, is the passenger obligated to inform the officer they have a TLC and are armed at the time? Obviously they are if asked by the officer. But if not asked, are they obligated.

Wouldn’t hurt if done politely

 

[jmohme]

It's not unusual for a cop to ask "do you have any weapons in the car" when they pull you over. Common courtesy would be not to make the cop play a guessing game. You're not "surrendering a Constitutional right" by letting the cop know you're armed rather than letting him be surprised.

And I've been asked for ID as a passenger at a traffic stop on two occasions - it happens.

I was asked for my drivers license while walking once.

 

[Texan79423]

3 Buddies and I left the gun range heading for lunch. I got stopped for speeding 72 in 65 zone. I handed trooper my TXDL and LTC. He asked if I was carrying and where was the weapon.

I replied which one as everyone in the truck was carrying and there were bags of handguns in the floorboard as well. He stepped back and said are you serious and we explained the situation and he laughed, issued me a warning and said have a good day men. He earned my respect.

 

[Renegade]

If you are not engaged in a licensed activity, there is no requirement to "show/provide" ID, even if arrested. You cannot lie, and if arrested and asked, you must tell LEO name, residence address, or date of birth



Sec. 38.02. FAILURE TO IDENTIFY. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.
(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:
(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.
(c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:
(1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07.

 

[Glenn B]

Why would a passenger at a traffic stop provide any info? Did you guys just hold up a convenience store? It is amazing how many people are willing to give up their constitutional rights.

You hit it on the head as to why everyone in a vehicle who is armed should inform. The officer may be stopping you on the pretext of speeding or running a stop sign (and maybe the driver actually did both) but the officer may have stopped you regardless of if there was a traffic infraction. Why? Because your car and the folks in it somewhat fit the description of the suspects and their car that was just involved in a violent felony or even because they think the car was stolen (think of the recent screw-up by cops when they ran a plate as AZ instead of AR and they pulled the family out at gunpoint because the cops thought the vehicle was stolen, thank goodness the woman told them there was a gun in the car instead of her reaching to get her registrsation out of the glove box first, those cops were fired up). Should your pistol somehow become exposed and you did not notify the officer that you were legally armed - an officer who unbeknownst to you already is hyped up on adrenaline because he thinks he is stopping the bad guys and he is now more so because he saw your gun - oh well...live or die with the consequences. Even if they are stopping you for a mere traffic infraction, if an armed passenger inadvertently expose his firearm it could rapidly become very problematic. My safety is the main reason I, as driver or passenger, always let them know I am armed.