TLC question

[Renegade]

You hit it on the head as to why everyone in a vehicle who is armed should inform. The officer may be stopping you on the pretext of speeding or running a stop sign (and maybe the driver actually did both) but the officer may have stopped you regardless of if there was a traffic infraction. Why? Because your car and the folks in it somewhat fit the description of the suspects and their car that was just involved in a violent felony or even because they think the car was stolen (think of the recent screw-up by cops when theuy ran a plate as AZ instead of AR and they pulled the family out at gunpoint because the cops thought the vehicle was stolen). Should your pistol somehow become exposed and you did not notify the officer that you were legally armed - an officer who unbeknownst to you already is hyped up on adrenaline because he thinks he is stopping the bad guys and he is now more so because he saw your gun - oh well...live or die with the consequences. Even if they are stopping you for a mere traffic infraction, if an armed passenger inadvertently expose his firearm it could rapidly become very problematic. My safety is the main reason I, as driver or passenger, always let them know I am armed.

If it is a felony stop, cop aint gonna be walking up to car asking for ID, and telling him you have a gun at that point is a really bad decision.

 

[DoubleDuty]

Again unless I am asked for ID I am not participating in the traffic stop.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

One should inform if pulled over.

It appears there is a duty to inform, but I wouldn't.

Wouldn't want to end up murdered like Philandro Castile. Then again, I'm white, so that's very unlikely, but still. No reason to ratchet up the tension these scaredy ass cops already feel.

 

[Renegade]

It appears there is a duty to inform, but I wouldn't.

That is an artifact that was not cleaned up when MPA passed. Instead of removing the whole law, they only removed the penalty.

 

[General Zod]

Wouldn't want to end up murdered like Philandro Castile. Then again, I'm white, so that's very unlikely, but still. No reason to ratchet up the tension these scaredy ass cops already feel.

Castile was an idiot. You don't inform and then grab for it while he's telling you not to. Castile wasn't murdered, he died because he was stupid. I've watched the videos. As soon as the cop at the drivers side door says "don't pull it out", both cops step back and draw because he kept reaching for something - probably the gun.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

Castile was an idiot. You don't inform and then grab for it while he's telling you not to. Castile wasn't murdered, he died because he was stupid. I've watched the videos. As soon as the cop at the drivers side door says "don't pull it out", both cops step back and draw because he kept reaching for something - probably the gun.

lol he wasn't grabbing for his gun.

He informed he was carrying, and then was reaching for his wallet to provide the ID the cop demanded.

The idiot, noob rookie cop then got spooked by a black guy with a gun, then blasted him in front of his child.

C'mon son...

 

[General Zod]

lol he wasn't grabbing for his gun.

He informed he was carrying, and then was reaching for his wallet to provide the ID the cop demanded.

The idiot, noob rookie cop then got spooked by a black guy with a gun, then blasted him in front of his child.

C'mon son...

Cop says "don't reach" you fucking hold your hand still. How complicated is that?


And..."son"? I'm probably older than you. Condescension doesn't imply wisdom.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

Cop says "don't reach" you fucking hold your hand still. How complicated is that?


And..."son"? I'm probably older than you. Condescension doesn't imply wisdom.

It becomes complicated when the cop said don't reach, while demanding he get his ID to show him, all while Philandro was calmly explaining hey, I'm reaching for my wallet. You know, to provide the ID that was demanded.

What are you to do when being given conflicting information by a screeching lunatic who already has you at gunpoint? Don't forget, this is all in the effort of trying to illustrate a perfect example of why informing a trigger happy cop that you have a gun on you is a terrible idea.

C'mon son is an expression. Doesn't mean anything other than... to express a degree of incredulity towards a statement or opinion.

As for age, I'm 41.

Are you older than I am?

 

[General Zod]

It becomes complicated when the cop said don't reach, while demanding he get his ID to show him, all while Philandro was calmly explaining hey, I'm reaching for my wallet. What are you to do when being given conflicting information by a screeching lunatic who already has you at gunpoint?

C'mon son is an expression. Doesn't mean anything other than to express a degree of incredulity towards a statement or opinion.

As for age, I'm 41.

Are you older than I am?

Yes I am, so don't call me "son". You shouldn't make assumptions like that, especially around here.

And when given conflicting orders, the repeated "don't reach! don't reach!" trumps the previous "show me your ID" - any fool can figure that out. Don't reach means keep your hands in plain view until things call down. Personally I'd put mine on the wheel so they can be seen.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

Yes I am, so don't call me "son". You shouldn't make assumptions like that, especially around here.

And when given conflicting orders, the repeated "don't reach! don't reach!" trumps the previous "show me your ID" - any fool can figure that out. Don't reach means keep your hands in plain view until things call down. Personally I'd put mine on the wheel so they can be seen.

Again, I wasn't calling you 'son' as to condescend to you from a birthdate perspective, it is an expression. Relax.

Nobody agrees that it was a good shoot. Except racists and unctuous bootlicking cop apologists. After watching the various angles and versions of that video, nobody can ever convince me that it was a good shoot, and that duty to notify is a good idea.

 

[Renegade]

It becomes complicated when the cop said don't reach, while demanding he get his ID to show him, all while Philandro was calmly explaining hey, I'm reaching for my wallet. You know, to provide the ID that was demanded.

What are you to do when being given conflicting information by a screeching lunatic who already has you at gunpoint? Don't forget, this is all in the effort of trying to illustrate a perfect example of why informing a trigger happy cop that you have a gun on you is a terrible idea.

C'mon son is an expression. Doesn't mean anything other than... to express a degree of incredulity towards a statement or opinion.

As for age, I'm 41.

Are you older than I am?

We have see shootings over the years from conflicting orders. Captain Obvious says you just stop doing anything, especially reaching, until clear orders are given.

Or better still. Have a plan for when you get pulled over. Something as simple as tossing your wallet on dash as soon as you see lights in rearview can prevent issues.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

We have see shootings over the years from conflicting orders. Captain Obvious says you just stop doing anything, especially reaching, until clear orders are given.

Or better still. Have a plan for when you get pulled over. Something as simple as tossing your wallet on dash as soon as you see lights in rearview can prevent issues.

But clear orders *were* given. The cop said to get your wallet/ID. However, because he was a twitchy, spastic rookie who knew the guy had a gun (because of duty to notify laws,) all he saw was black dude reaching for the waist area to get the wallet he was ordered to give.

From flash to bang there was what, less than 2 whole seconds? It's appalling.

 

[General Zod]

Except racists and unctuous bootlicking cop apologists.

Man, you're just intent on making friends. It was not a "good shoot" but it was 100% escalated to the point of death by the idiot who was shot. And then folks like you piled on going for blood against the Asian "white supremacist" cop.

You've gotten one thing right - clear orders were given. Then Castile announced he was armed while reaching for his wallet outside the cops' view. At that point, the order given was "Don't reach for it" and Castile decided to argue he wasn't, while continuing to reach.

Clear order? "Don't reach for it".

Did he follow that clearly stated, repeated order that supercedes the previous orders? NO. So he got himself shot. Pretty clear cut. Messy situation all around that could have been easily avoided by following the clearly stated orders not to reach. All he had to do was stop moving and put his hands in plain view, but he chose not to.

 

[Renegade]

But clear orders *were* given. The cop said to get your wallet/ID. However, because he was a twitchy, spastic rookie who knew the guy had a gun (because of duty to notify laws,) all he saw was black dude reaching for the waist area to get the wallet he was ordered to give.

From flash to bang there was what, less than 2 whole seconds? It's appalling.

That was before Castile told him he had gun. Cop then said don’t reach for it and don’t pull it out.

So common sense says do not reach for anything till you are sure cop knows what you are reaching for. Time is on your side. No need to rush to get your dl out.

But common sense is not so common anymore.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

Man, you're just intent on making friends. It was not a "good shoot" but it was 100% escalated to the point of death by the idiot who was shot. And then folks like you piled on going for blood against the Asian "white supremacist" cop.

You've gotten one thing right - clear orders were given. Then Castile announced he was armed while reaching for his wallet outside the cops' view. At that point, the order given was "Don't reach for it" and Castile decided to argue he wasn't, while continuing to reach.

Clear order? "Don't reach for it".

Did he follow that clearly stated, repeated order that supercedes the previous orders? NO. So he got himself shot. Pretty clear cut. Messy situation all around that could have been easily avoided by following the clearly stated orders not to reach. All he had to do was stop moving and put his hands in plain view, but he chose not to.

See, we like to call this 'victim blaming.' Where Philandro was guilty of nothing other than being stopped by the wrong cop. From what I recall his training officer was there with him, not correcting anything.

He wasn't reaching for 'it.' The gun. He was reaching for his wallet. Like he was instructed to do.

At this point it seems like you and I are at an impasse. It's fine, these happen.

Also, it's good to educate people that white supremacy isn't exclusive to white people, and neither is racism.

Believe me, it was a difficult pill for me to swallow too.

 

[Renegade]

See, we like to call this 'victim blaming.'

No we call it learn from the experiences of others.

Some learn, some dont.

Like he was instructed to do.

Did officer ask if he was armed? No? So STFU.

Learn from that too.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

No we call it learn from the experiences of others.

Some learn, some dont.



Did officer ask if he was armed? No? So STFU.

Learn from that too.

That's the whole point I'm trying to make, and using the Castile murder as an example of why it's a bad idea to notify.

All it does is take a mundane traffic stop and ratchet the tension up to ZOMG BLOOD IN THE STREETS.

 

[Charlie]

If I was pulled over {haven't been in the last 50 yrs. plus) and I and someone with me should inform him/her that I was armed, in my opinion. Were I an officer I would surely like to know. No reason not to and it would make the officer more comfortable.

 

[Recoil Therapy]

If I was pulled over {haven't been in the last 50 yrs. plus) and I and someone with me should inform him/her that I was armed, in my opinion. Were I an officer I would surely like to know. No reason not to and it would make the officer more comfortable.

What they don't know won't hurt them.

Can certainly hurt you, though.

 

[General Zod]

He wasn't reaching for 'it.' The gun. He was reaching for his wallet. Like he was instructed to do.

So your position is that if a police officer instructs you to do something, you should do only that thing regardless of any subsequent instructions or shouted orders he follows up with? Because damn, that's some interesting mental gymnastics there. As soon as a police officer draws his weapon and shouts "don't reach for it", a reasonable person would stop reaching for anything and get both of his hands visible immediately.