Ukraine invasion

[candcallen]

Cand,

"Still critical thinking demands you ignore you bias, which many of you can't seem to do..."

Right back atcha, old hoss!

I would actually like to think you're correct, never been a fan of the Russkies...nor for that matter, the very many corrupt entities in Ukraine...see 'burisma' and h. biden...for one example...

We can argue all day about this...no Ukraine has Russia on the run, no it's the other way around...only time will tell and that time won't be too much longer.

When winter declines and the mud hardens, we'll see...and I'm not hopeful that the Ukes will prevail...

Ahhh but you are ignoring the fact that the Ukrainian aren't alone. The have the equipment and support of a vastly superior complex of military and industrial might.

If they were alone to begin with Russia would have already won regardless of their obvious paper tiger ineptitude.

 

[benenglish]

Either Russia tries to negotiate a settlement, they are blead dry and eventually leave or they turn brutal and turn to ww2 human wave carnage

Given Russia's historical tolerance for casualties, I think that last option is most likely.

A wild card, though are the reports (Rumors?) of torture facilities for children and the mass kidnapping and removal of Ukrainians, mostly children, to Siberia for re-education. I don't know how true those reports are but they seem to have really pissed off people sending aid to Ukraine, resulting in a renewed dedication to that aid in all and, maybe, expanded forms.

 

[Havok1]

If they were wrong, there wouldn't be a Ukriane anymore...

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Not necessarily.

 

[candcallen]

Given Russia's historical tolerance for casualties, I think that last option is most likely.

A wild card, though are the reports (Rumors?) of torture facilities for children and the mass kidnapping and removal of Ukrainians, mostly children, to Siberia for re-education. I don't know how true those reports are but they seem to have really pissed off people sending aid to Ukraine, resulting in a renewed dedication to that aid in all and, maybe, expanded forms.

A definite possibility. Especially considering putins desire to see the soviet Era rise again.

The question is weather a modern Russia will tolerate such madness.

 

[gll]

Most seem to see this war as Ukraine, or the U.S., or NATO, or the west vs Russia...

I see it as NWO globalism vs the only things standing in it's way... Russia, China, and American gun owners (strange bedfellows, but who doesn't see that we are all treated as enemies?). I don't have to like any of those entities to hope the globalists lose,

cause I think NWO globalism is the greatest threat to peace and freedom in the world, and those powers care nothing for the citizens of any country.

There's my conspiracy theory...

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

gll,

Couldn't agree more.

Cand,

You're ignoring the fact that the U.S. is among the very few left who continue to support Ukraine...many have dropped out seeing the inevitable outcome...

 

[oldag]

oldag,

"When you start retaking significant portions of your own land, you have begun to win."

Did you get this Pro-Uke 'news' from an impeachable source?

As you can obviously tell, I think all the favorable Uke 'news' to be Pro-Uke propaganda...about as believable as all the 'faux-information' Foochi and the rest of the msm gang fed us about c-19.

The faux-news is to prop up tax payer morale for our execrable, billions of tax dollar investment in Ukraine.

Nothing, absolutely nothing about the msm 'news' regarding the Uke/Rus war can be believed...nothing...or anything else for that matter.

Sources not connected to msm b.s. have far more credibility, but go ahead and ignore them as they don't fit the pro-Uke narrative...

I appreciate having been exposed to non-stop (msm) Uke victories and their soldiers being far superior to Rusky cannon fodder sounds good, but as time progresses, the truth will out...

Given this war isn't our business and both countries governments (as has been noted previously) are massively corrupt, my sympathies lie with the ravaged citizens of both countries.

The soldiers are pawns too and I feel sorry for both sides military, but 'we' shouldn't be there as 'advisors' or in any other capacity, but sadly we are...

Look around. I do not think you will find any news source that says Ukraine has not recaptured ground. Heck, man, even Russia admits it! Putin has publicly fired generals over this.

Narrative? Look in the mirror my friend..

 

[oldag]

Cand,

"Still critical thinking demands you ignore you bias, which many of you can't seem to do..."

Right back atcha, old hoss!

I would actually like to think you're correct, never been a fan of the Russkies...nor for that matter, the very many corrupt entities in Ukraine...see 'burisma' and h. biden...for one example...

We can argue all day about this...no Ukraine has Russia on the run, no it's the other way around...only time will tell and that time won't be too much longer.

When winter declines and the mud hardens, we'll see...and I'm not hopeful that the Ukes will prevail...

I don't think the US is in a position to criticize Ukraine over corruption. Sadly...

 

[oldag]

gll,

Couldn't agree more.

Cand,

You're ignoring the fact that the U.S. is among the very few left who continue to support Ukraine...many have dropped out seeing the inevitable outcome...

Please list who is still supporting and who has quit.

 

[BigRed]

If Ukraine needs to stock up on folks to fight, I know where we could round up about 2,000,000+ who have demonstrated interest in leaving their homeland and going someplace else!

 

[angel71rs]

Reports that russia is running out of cannon fodder at Bakhmut, resorting to using squad-sized assaults. This was seen in Kherson region right before russians turned tail and ran.

Bakhmut seems to have no strategic importance, it is hotly disputed mainly because that is where wagner group is trying to show putler that they can perform better than the russian army. If they lose, so much for the "elite" wagner fighters.

Kreminna is supposedly close to falling to Ukrainian forces, if so, Bakhmut won't be far behind. Would be a huge blow to wagner group's credibility, and russia's. What's left of it.


Me, I was happy to see Ukrainians hold and then start to push the russians back, starting with the Kyiv region. Then the russians getting pushed back in the northeast around Kharkiv, plus Kherson, made me think they might actually kick the russians completely out.

IMO the biggest indication of who is losing comes down to who is making peace negotiation noises. Hint: it's not the Ukrainians.

Will be interesting to see what happens in Kreminna and Bakhmut.

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

oldag,

You can research it for yourself...it's there, but here's a hint, even the U.S. is pulling support see: The United States evacuated State Department personnel and embassy operations from Ukraine to Poland on Monday, amid fears that security conditions could deteriorate following Russia's recent gains...

I don't care to see Ukraine utterly ruined (see photo after photo of destroyed major buildings - some building after building in a row...) anymore than you, but apparently Russia is of the philosophy of what they can't immediately have, they'll s*** on with missile after missile, bomb after bomb among other stand off weapons doing their murderous work...

They don't have to battle 'mano a mano' - They have a vast inventory of 'stand off' weapons without having to conduct major soldier against soldier battles...

When they do decide to come in and 'mop up' with massive amounts of troops, it'll be a horror show...

What they'll inherit: Utterly ruined cities and infrastructure, devastated soldiers (those left alive) and civilians totally desperate and demoralized...if still there and if there...alive.

I see zelinsky (who reminds me of 1950's fidel, wearing his combat fatigues everywhere he went...oh my, what a hero of the people...) bolting with plenty of U.S. moola, (plenty being millions if not billions) while being praised for his courage, posturing on the world stage while living in luxurious exile, (Ukrainains, you're on your own) while his hotty wife does her thing, most recently spending her time in Paris shopping...

What an ugly, war boondoggle - We're paying for

Ukrainians aren't my responsibility and never have been...but, here we are...

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

angel,

No criticism of you, but do you have military experience?

 

[benenglish]

apparently Russia is of the philosophy of what they can't immediately have, they'll s*** on with missile after missile, bomb after bomb among other stand off weapons doing their murderous work...

They don't have to battle 'mano a mano' - They have a vast inventory of 'stand off' weapons without having to conduct major soldier against soldier battles...

When they do decide to come in and 'mop up' with massive amounts of troops, it'll be a horror show...

Historically, that's how they fight wars. They throw massive artillery barrages ahead of them then slowly advance the infantry forward through the pre-devastated landscape.

I don't think they'll care about inheriting a broken country. They'd be perfectly happy to see the place entirely depopulated and flattened, as far as I can tell.

 

[angel71rs]

angel,

No criticism of you, but do you have military experience?

USMC 79-85, but I was just a tech.

I don't see what someone having military experience has to do with observations on the situation. e.g., my posting that those who are losing tend to be the ones seeking negotiations is supported by history and common sense. Ukrainians are the ones saying nyet to negotiations, tells me they are the ones winning.

As I said, will be interesting to see what happens in Kreminna and Bakhmut.

 

[toddnjoyce]

Historically, that's how they fight wars. They throw massive artillery barrages ahead of them then slowly advance the infantry forward through the pre-devastated landscape….

Which is how most modern militaries have fought a classic military operation since the Germans introduced Blitzkrieg. Sure, each military has it’s own particular bent on the tactics, the rest is iist a matter of scale…do you want indirect fire to attrit 60% of the targets? 95% of the targets?

 

[Mowingmaniac 24/7]

ben,

Yes, a ghastly future for Ukraine.

The world is a 'Vail of Tears' and on that note, I'm retiring for the day.

I've some great lamb chops, and other epicurean delights to look forward to in the next 30 or so minutes.

Glad, I'm no longer a soldier...

 

[cycleguy2300]

Which is how most modern militaries have fought a classic military operation since the Germans introduced Blitzkrieg. Sure, each military has it’s own particular bent on the tactics, the rest is iist a matter of scale…do you want indirect fire to attrit 60% of the targets? 95% of the targets?

The russians cannot use their armour's mobility.

They pound something with artillery, make an attack with infantry supported by tanks, get pushed back with heavy losses, then do the same thing the next day... over and over. Eventually they would simply pound the defenders away, capture a Km or so, move up the artillery just out of range of зсу artillery and repeat. Now that the Ukrainians have weapons with range matching or exceeding the range of the rashist guns, it doesn't work so well...

russia attempted a war of maneuver, early on around especially around Kyiv, but because they didn't have cross-country capability due to terrain combined with exceedingly poor logistical support, the attack was blunted, stopped, then routed.

russia does not have and never has had air superiority due to manpads and therefore cannot control the battle space especially in regards to anti-armour teams russia was forced to attack with nearly unsupported infantry, which against even half-trained defenders was suicide. So russia used the range advantage it had with artillery to kill all the defenders of an area or force them to vacate.

A failure of Russian airpower had a huge trickle down and until they fix that, they cannot win with the longer ranged equipment the зсу has and continues to get from the USA, England, The Netherlands, France, Germany, Poland etc.

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[Brains]

Going after Kyiv was a solid play. Proximity to the border, support from a friendly neighbor, psychological effect of taking the capital city, strategic advantage of having a major population center under your thumb, etc. But it didn't work and they got their shit pushed in pretty fast. The East was "their" people, and they've lost and continue to lose ground. The steel factory, the nuke plant, various population centers have been and are being reclaimed. Crimea was Russian for a few years, with lots of support on the ground, and now that's in play for the Ukrainians too. Now we're hearing that Ukraine is lobbing blasty things inside of Russia proper. Yeah, I guess it does sound like the Russkies are winning. ‍

 

[Havok1]

USMC 79-85, but I was just a tech.

I don't see what someone having military experience has to do with observations on the situation. e.g., my posting that those who are losing tend to be the ones seeking negotiations is supported by history and common sense. Ukrainians are the ones saying nyet to negotiations, tells me they are the ones winning.

As I said, will be interesting to see what happens in Kreminna and Bakhmut.

Not necessarily.