Ukraine invasion

[toddnjoyce]

Alternarively

Thanks for posting those documents. I have a 74h+ week starting tomorrow, but I'll try to breeze through them as a I can. I've read Ryan's book on the fall of Berlin, it was good.





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Then you understand the half-million round artillery barrage was preparation of the battlefield for follow on forces. All sides have recognized the value of artillery in that role since the Napoleonic era. The major advancement the Germans showcased was speed to commit follow on combined arms maneuver forces to encircle their opponents. The Soviets never have understood that, despite knowing full well the value of artillery.

Russian doctrine hasn't really evolved that much. Attrit 99% of any possible opposition thru artillery preparation before committing maneuver forces precisely because the Soviets (and later Russian) forces don't trust their airpower to deliver in a combined arms fight. Which in Ukraine, they (Ru AF) never did do, going back to Feb 24th. With airpower no longer available as an indirect fire asset, that leaves artillery, rockets, and missiles to prep the battlefield.

Which is exactly what every modern military does before committing limited and costly ground forces.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Alternarively

Then you understand the half-million round artillery barrage was preparation of the battlefield for follow on forces. All sides have recognized the value of artillery in that role since the Napoleonic era. The major advancement the Germans showcased was speed to commit follow on combined arms maneuver forces to encircle their opponents. The Soviets never have understood that, despite knowing full well the value of artillery.

Russian doctrine hasn't really evolved that much. Attrit 99% of any possible opposition thru artillery preparation before committing maneuver forces precisely because the Soviets (and later Russian) forces don't trust their airpower to deliver in a combined arms fight. Which in Ukraine, they (Ru AF) never did do, going back to Feb 24th. With airpower no longer available as an indirect fire asset, that leaves artillery, rockets, and missiles to prep the battlefield.

Which is exactly what every modern military does before committing limited and costly ground forces.

I think we primarily disagree on magnitude rather than principle...

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[oldag]

And how long will the Russkie artillery ammo stocks hold out before depletion?

 

[candcallen]

And how long will the Russkie artillery ammo stocks hold out before depletion?

When the Iranian and norks run out.

 

[cycleguy2300]

And how long will the Russkie artillery ammo stocks hold out before depletion?

Barrels are a wear item too.

Рф has been firing their guns at a much greater frequency than the Ukrainians, partly through doctrine and necessity but partly do to the availability of ammo (at least if the ammo dumps don't get himar'd) and I have heard barrels may become a limiting factor on their ability to employ artillery.

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[oldag]

Barrels are a wear item too.

Рф has been firing their guns at a much greater frequency than the Ukrainians, partly through doctrine and necessity but partly do to the availability of ammo (at least if the ammo dumps don't get himar'd) and I have heard barrels may become a limiting factor on their ability to employ artillery.

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Excellent point.

 

[Aus_Schwaben]

Barrels are a wear item too.

Рф has been firing their guns at a much greater frequency than the Ukrainians, partly through doctrine and necessity but partly do to the availability of ammo (at least if the ammo dumps don't get himar'd) and I have heard barrels may become a limiting factor on their ability to employ artillery.

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I wonder if the PLA has a stockpile of compatible barrels they can sell the Russians?

 

[angel71rs]

Hundreds of mobiliks got HIMARSed. Reports that munitions were stored near the barracks blew up. WTF?!? Even pro-russian commentators POd at this kind of incompetence. Separate strike takes out dozens of wagnerites.

‘Zone Of Destruction’: Ukraine Rocket Kills Dozens Of Russian Troops, The Deadliest Strike In Months

Ukrainian forces struck a schoolhouse in the occupied Donbas region, killing dozens of newly-minted Russian servicemen, Ukraine's defense ministry said Monday.

dailycaller.com

 

[cycleguy2300]

Hundreds of mobiliks got HIMARSed. Reports that munitions were stored near the barracks blew up. WTF?!? Even pro-russian commentators POd at this kind of incompetence. Separate strike takes out dozens of wagnerites.

‘Zone Of Destruction’: Ukraine Rocket Kills Dozens Of Russian Troops, The Deadliest Strike In Months

Ukrainian forces struck a schoolhouse in the occupied Donbas region, killing dozens of newly-minted Russian servicemen, Ukraine's defense ministry said Monday.

dailycaller.com

Just this morning russia says 64 died in a strike on barracks, Ukraine says hundreds... even if ONLY 64, that will make folks a little more nervous back behind the lines. As I saw in response to a drone flying into a russian APC "Oh no, I hope nobody is OK"

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[popper]

105 has barrel life of ~ 7k rnds. Determined by accuracy- can be much longer. Most have a flechette system so the projectile-to-barrel wear is reduced.
Iwo jima used ~ 28000rnds in the 3 day bombardment. 3x5 mi island

 

[cycleguy2300]

105 has barrel life of ~ 7k rnds. Determined by accuracy- can be much longer. Most have a flechette system so the projectile-to-barrel wear is reduced.
Iwo jima used ~ 28000rnds in the 3 day bombardment. 3x5 mi island

I'm seeing life expectancy numbers WAY lower for russian (and American) barrels, in the 1500-3000 rounds through a barrel. Even 3000 rnds not all that much given the number of rounds russia is using...

Are you sure you meant flechette? Sabot maybe? But not sure how that effects barrel wear (now will find out)

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[oldag]

I'm seeing life expectancy numbers WAY lower for russian (and American) barrels, in the 1500-3000 rounds through a barrel. Even 3000 rnds not all that much given the number of rounds russia is using...

Are you sure you meant flechette? Sabot maybe? But not sure how that effects barrel wear (now will find out)

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105 flechette would be interesting...

 

[popper]

Sorry, I got the wrong name. They use a soft metal band around the projectile to grab the rifling. Decreases barrel wear. As in normal combat, barrel wear is not a factor, just keep shooting. Until the barrel get hot enough to cause hot 'fires'.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Sorry, I got the wrong name. They use a soft metal band around the projectile to grab the rifling. Decreases barrel wear. As in normal combat, barrel wear is not a factor, just keep shooting. Until the barrel get hot enough to cause hot 'fires'.

Driving band.

Nato uses plastic of some sort
Soviet stuff still uses metallic ones

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[cycleguy2300]

Making headway!

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[glenbo]

This is from the VIP section so might be behind a paywall. It's long, detailed, well worth the read.

Putin's War, Week 45: Putin Declares a Cease Fire, Zelensky Gets Putin's Terms for Peace, and if You're Fighting a War, Leave Your Cell Phone Home

redstate.com

 

[cycleguy2300]

This is from the VIP section so might be behind a paywall. It's long, detailed, well worth the read.

Putin's War, Week 45: Putin Declares a Cease Fire, Zelensky Gets Putin's Terms for Peace, and if You're Fighting a War, Leave Your Cell Phone Home

redstate.com

It was avaliable to me, not that long and very interesting.

Spent the day with a friend of mine who just returned (and is looking for funding to go back and keep doing evacs) and everything this guy wrote seems in-line with what my buddy was saying.

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[glenbo]

Every time I read that column it makes me hate putin and the russian army more. They are terrorists, nothing more.

 

[cycleguy2300]

Every time I read that column it makes me hate putin and the russian army more. They are terrorists, nothing more.

Agreed.

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[leVieux]

This is from the VIP section so might be behind a paywall. It's long, detailed, well worth the read.

Putin's War, Week 45: Putin Declares a Cease Fire, Zelensky Gets Putin's Terms for Peace, and if You're Fighting a War, Leave Your Cell Phone Home

redstate.com

.
Well, I disagree with you and the article. I think I’ll stay with General Flynn’s assessments.

But, I just won’t argue over it.

leVieux
.